new Dwarf units

[ruiza97]

Thanks to info gleaned from captured goblins, long thought lost but highly sought after Dwarves, have been rescued from the depths of Mount Gunbad.

Dwarf unit                           |Atk|Hits|Arm|
250 - IronBreakers               4    4     4+
Iron Breakers cannot be driven back by shooting and never roll for drive backs. Causes terror. 
Dwarf unit                           |Atk|Hits|Arm|
150 - Hammers                    3     4      4+
Hammers cannot be driven back by shooting and never roll for drive backs.  Only the General can join a Hammers unit. When joined by the General, this unit and any other Hammers touching this unit ignore terror.

I found the lack of variety in the Dwarf list appalling.  Therefore, since I have a few of each, I've decided to write some rules for them.  Please tell me what you think of the rules and the cost for each unit.  I figured one per 1000 or making them Elite.  I'll be painting a unit of each ASAP so I'll post some pics.

[Stormwind]

Cool idea!

The Ironbreakers are seriously underpriced, mind you.  Those are the stats of Chaos Warriors which are 150 points.  30 points for CAUSE terror, ignore confusion and cannot be pushed back should really push it up 200 points.  Ignore confusion is seriously too powerful - I'd drop it altogether.  Do Ironbreakers cause fear in non-Dwarves in Warhammer?

[ruiza97]

From the Trollslayers, "cannot be driven back by shooting and never roll for
drive backs."  I'll change the rules to coincide with the Trollslayers.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarf_(Warhammer)#Ironbreakers, "Within the game, Dwarf Ironbreakers have high weapon skills, good strength and great armor and leadership characteristics. As a result of this hardiness, many opponents would avoid fighting them and would attempt to tackle less armored soldiers, counter with their own heavily armored units, or use range units."

Since the Dwarves don't currently have a unit that causes terror, why not.

[honestmistake]

Iron Breakers are way overpowered... Maybe maybe if they were the same cost as Chaos Warriors (150 points) and lost all the special abilities they might make a nice elite unit but with all that stuck on you could just stick em at the front of a brigade and stroll forwards at  your own pace without much worry
Do you really find the dwarf list lacks variety though? it gets a very effective flying shooter and one of the most powerful artillery pieces in the game (flame cannons!) Add to that the cannons, armour defeating shooters, cavalry chasing foot soldiers and uber maniacs of doom and i can't really see what more they need?

[ruiza97]

thanks guys for your opinions.  If ya'll feel that the Ironbreakers are undercosted, please tell me how much you would value them at what I've decided as rules for them.

Also, I do feel the Dwarf list lacks variety.  In between Infantry/Cavalry, Dwarfs have 4 units to choose from, while all the other armies have 5 or more Infantry/Cavalry units, and some have Monsters to choose from.  Bottom line, I have the models and can field 3 units each of Ironbreakers and Hammers.  Trying to convince me otherwise is futile.

[empireaddict]

I’ve never had a problem with the range of choices in the Dwarf list; its simplicity is one of its attractions. 

But you’ve set out your stall fairly clearly, so I’m not going to get into a theological debate about the spirit of Warmaster being about aggregating units rather than proliferating lots of special ones.  Personally, I don’t have a problem with the odd special unit as long as its price is pegged alongside existing stats/costs.  On that basis I still think you’re way under with the most recent edit of 200 and 120.

Your Ironbreakers have Chaos Warriors stats = 150 points as a baseline
Based on character mounts, terror-causing = 50 points
Also I don’t see why an infantry unit would cause terror in its opponents. 
If its because of their prowess, then shouldn’t that apply to lots of other infantry units in the game?
But if we let that pass, even without the ‘no roll for drive backs’ you should be at 200 points
No roll for drive backs with 4+ armour then makes this probably the most powerful infantry unit in the game?
So, if you crossed the Atlantic to play me, I’d politely ask you to pay at least 250 points for them

Your Hammers have Dwarf infantry stats with no drive back and potentially ignore terror.  Difficult to cost that using equivalents, but your current price of 120 strikes me as too low.  I’d say at least 150.

As for 3 of each in a game?  Well, if it was a 3k army perhaps I wouldn’t object.

[kyussinchains]

I have to agree with empireaddict on this one, while dwarfs have fewer infantry choices, they do have 3 flavours of war machine which compensates somewhat in my view, I'm happy with the infantry choices you have as they fill specific roles within the list quite nicely, warriors are a solid foundation, thunderers are shooty and defensive, rangers are good all round and trollslayers are your 'flavour' unit, you can even add some speedy 'alpha strike' capability using gyrocopters

having said this, if I were statting ironbreakers up, I'd consider giving them an extra attack and perhaps a 3+ armour save

Hammerers would get an extra attack, immunity to terror when joined by the general is a nice touch

I'd also make both units a -/1 choice AND make them elite to restrict their numbers further, they're very much a fluff choice rather than anything the list is crying out for IMHO

[frogbear]

No list change please.
Just keep extra units as a fan list.

[Jurisch]

No addition. I use my hammerers with banners to get them stronger.

[ruiza97]

@empireaddict, I'll use your price point as the starting line and go from there.  Thanks.

@kyussinchains, I was considering something as similar.  But thought, why not start big.  Using the stats you came up with, how would you price Ironbreakers and Hammers?

@everyone, my intention is to use this solely for my enjoyment.  No plans on any changes to the Dwarf list.  Again, thanks to everyone who has humored me.

[calmacil]

Aren't there rules for the big flying ship for the dwarfs somewhere?


Also for Ironbreakers. I think i'm right saying they wear Gromil Armour....... so instead of causing terror, how about improving their armour. One way you could do this is to increase it to a 3+ armour save, but i think this would be too powerful with infantry.......... How about a certain amount of rerolls for armour? i don't know how many

[ruiza97]

Also for Ironbreakers. I think i'm right saying they wear Gromil Armour....... so instead of causing terror, how about improving their armour. One way you could do this is to increase it to a 3+ armour save, but i think this would be too powerful with infantry.......... How about a certain amount of rerolls for armour? i don't know how many

Or instead of causing terror, Ironbreakers only cause terror in Orcs, Goblins, and Skaven, no push back, immune to terror themselves.  I would still keep the armour at 4+.

Finally, I'm still in process of painting a stand each of Ironbreakers and Hammers.

[calmacil]

I think chaos warriors look more frightening than Iron breakers.

I'd go for;
Attack =4 ..... Hits =4 ..... Armour = 4+
Gromil Armour= reroll up to two failed armour saves per combat phase (incl. Shooting)
Cost = 180 points

To reflect how rare they are, the min/max is 0.5 .... (You can have 1 unit every 2,000 points)

[ruiza97]

I think chaos warriors look more frightening than Iron breakers.

To you but what about a Skaven or Gobbo?