May 25, 2025, 06:55:27 PM

Author Topic: [AL]Wood Elves  (Read 42974 times)

Offline Clawlessdragon

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 63
    • Loc: Kent, England
Re: [AL]Wood Elves
« Reply #105 on: March 30, 2018, 09:21:22 AM »
I personally like the latest version of the army list , bar a few tweaks. Too much choice? Just look at the orcs and gobs, they have the most unit choices. Too over powered? I point my finger at the high elves, even dark elves with their 2 shooting attacks at 15cm.
I like the fact there are 2 distinct army flavours, elf or tree spirits (it would have been good to have more animals from the forest, wolves, bears, but we are not looking to create a new list, just fix the current) together with the choice of light and heavy troops.
I think having minimum dryads is a mistake, great fluff, but a nightmare to get models for (unless we can persuade black gate minatures to do wood elves after the orgres).
I also think the loss of woods will be a mistake, reduced to 2, and of a small size, the "fortresses" have little impact, you can't hide your whole army within. Also, when i played empire, these were my only means of closing the gap against those damn cannons. Without the heavy armour of other armies, they are so exposed over the open field.
More importantly, if you remove the woods, you reduce the effectiveness of the tree singing spell, that can be cast by the treeman and wizard. So maybe that spell would also need changing if the wood go. I understand these woods could cause issues in some scenarios played in the tournaments. -
interesting concept to alow all armies to "purchase" additional terrain.





« Last Edit: March 30, 2018, 09:24:50 AM by Clawlessdragon »

Offline Leonida

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 58
    • Loc: italy
Re: [AL]Wood Elves
« Reply #106 on: March 30, 2018, 10:13:54 AM »
@Clawlessdragon
@Aldhick
I agree with you two, surely reducing the WE to a simple tournament army list is a mistake penalizing it all. Surely decreasing the wood or eliminating them as an option, it goes to diminish the spells making them even more ineffective or in some cases useless. in fact, two out of four spells have the presence of a wood within 30 cm, this is already a limit.
Not all the world of Warmaster is based on tournaments!
Fortunately for my club

Finally Thanks guys
"Remember, is a game"

Offline Leonida

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 58
    • Loc: italy
Re: [AL]Wood Elves
« Reply #107 on: March 30, 2018, 10:21:16 AM »
@Clawlessdragon
Ps. I forgot: I too was destroyed by the cannons of the empire with my WE 0.2.3.

I have already modified and built my WE army on a 0.2.3 basis. Including Dryadi

Leonidas
« Last Edit: March 30, 2018, 10:29:08 AM by Leonida »
"Remember, is a game"

Offline empireaddict

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 522
    • Loc: UK East Midlands
Re: [AL]Wood Elves
« Reply #108 on: March 31, 2018, 11:19:09 AM »
Promised I would shut up about WEs, but one last appeal:

If the list is going to retain the option to buy woods (which I still think is a bad idea), at least make it a real choice and a real price.  Swapping a unit of Wild Riders for a wood/pillbox would be a genuine choice.  Swapping out a skirmish stand is a no-brainer.

Onward to Cathay ...
"I cannot believe you when you say [your friend] has identical plastic boxes for his armies, all color coded [...] Don't you think that is being little obsessive?"
"Yes, but not enough to scare us wargamers."
Larry Leadhead (2004)

Offline Leonida

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 58
    • Loc: italy
Re: [AL]Wood Elves
« Reply #109 on: March 31, 2018, 02:16:40 PM »
I am a lover of oriental armies. You made me very curious. I already have a Nippon army (compendium 2009) and I was interested in making Cathai, but now I'll wait for yours.

Leonidas
"Remember, is a game"

Offline Leonida

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 58
    • Loc: italy
Re: [AL]Wood Elves
« Reply #110 on: March 31, 2018, 03:32:26 PM »

WE wood: I thought of various solutions,

1; The first free wood, measuring 16/18 cm, if you want more, is purchased at a cost "x" but smaller than 12/14 cm, at most one every 1000 pts.

2; Alternative: one free Wood every Treemen in play, dimensions 16/18 cm.

3; Alternative: one free wood and one more for each Treemen in play. 16/18 cm

4; Alternative: apply the WE army list rule 0.2.3.

Leonidas














"Remember, is a game"

Offline empireaddict

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 522
    • Loc: UK East Midlands
Re: [AL]Wood Elves
« Reply #111 on: March 31, 2018, 03:32:56 PM »
@Leonida, Minis used are here
http://www.forum.specialist-arms.com/index.php?topic=7161.msg61947#msg61947
Some changes since then.  Have used TB Line Mongol Heavy Cavalry as Cold Ones proxies.
I'll start a new thread for Cathay.
"I cannot believe you when you say [your friend] has identical plastic boxes for his armies, all color coded [...] Don't you think that is being little obsessive?"
"Yes, but not enough to scare us wargamers."
Larry Leadhead (2004)

Offline Clawlessdragon

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 63
    • Loc: Kent, England
Re: [AL]Wood Elves
« Reply #112 on: April 06, 2018, 12:52:30 AM »
just played another game against Dark elves tonight. Maybe its just me, or the choices I made - but I can never get the wood elves to be a real threat in a game, let alone win. However, a few more observations from tonight's game.

Dryads should not be compulsory (mainly as it is impossible to represent them with models in any number) or perhaps make it a choice between Dryad or Eternal Guard (same point cost) depending if you are going for a elf army or spirit army... Chaos Dwarf has this choice mechanic... 2 earth shakers or 2 rockets or 1 of each....

Glade riders are over priced at 100 !! look at high elves, same stats but they cost 90 points.  Even Dark elf riders, with same stats but with double shots at 15cm cost 95 points (which is devistating if 3 units ride up to you!! no one survives 18 shots).

Not sure if the wild riders should be tree spirits-  it is the only good fast/hard hitting thing in the army has and it is penailsed as only a hero with cmd 8 can order it - or the General @ -1cmd... it therefore is not as effective as the dark or high elf cav (yes it is immune to terror, which is not to be sniffed at)

Finally, I still dont see the issue with the extra woods. I like the fact you have to 'pay' for them, so make a real choice between more troops or terrain, but what is a reasonable cost? They have been reduced in size, so you can only get a couple of units within (that can see out and shoot or charge) and scaled back from 4 to 2 woods at most. In most games you should have enough terrain, so the placement of new woods will be very limited towards the wood elfs own table edge and have little or no impact on the game... In the last game I had, one wood moved 4cm - a waste of a spell really.  - I appreciate it would get frustrating if units reduced to 1 stand hide in the woods, so you can't finish them off, or in tournaments - in certain scenarios - they can cause issues, but they have toned down a lot, I feel a lot of those early issues have been addressed, but you can never please everyone.

Just a few thoughts really, but Glade rider point costs do need looking at :) Good luck with deciding the final rules. 


Offline Aldhick

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 477
  • The End is nigh
    • Loc: Czech Republic
Re: [AL]Wood Elves
« Reply #113 on: April 11, 2018, 08:16:05 AM »
The glade riders point cost is a mistake indeed. They should be 90.
The reasons for Dryads being compulsory choice are: 1. ideological - WE are ment to be tiny in numbers and therefore they alway bring woodland creatures along to battle. 2. It sould allow you to build tree spirit-heavy army. 3. It is neccessary to justify Ld10 genarl for 155 pts
Wild riders are forest spirits fluff-wise and again it is neccessary to justify 155 pts for the general.

Currently discussed changes for next draft:
- wardancers from 25 to 30 pts
- glade riders 90 pts
- wildriders from 100 to 115 pts
- waywatchers from 2/2A to 1/2A and from 70 to 60pts
- only one unicorn per army.
WM - Toomb Kings
My Mordheim guys (and gals)
http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/t2734-aldhick-s-gangs

Offline Leonida

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 58
    • Loc: italy
Re: [AL]Wood Elves
« Reply #114 on: April 11, 2018, 01:08:32 PM »
Waywatchers 1/2 absurd ............! I feel sad!

Leonida
"Remember, is a game"

Offline Leonida

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 58
    • Loc: italy
Re: [AL]Wood Elves
« Reply #115 on: April 11, 2018, 01:13:30 PM »
A defeat! I do not understand this extreme power of Wood Elf !? I ask at this point for help to understand !!!! But really now point the finger at the Dark Riders 95 pts cost absurdly Low !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Remember, is a game"

Offline Leonida

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 58
    • Loc: italy
Re: [AL]Wood Elves
« Reply #116 on: April 11, 2018, 01:29:24 PM »
Why Wild Riders 115 pts? A 110 Pts seems more justified. Unicorn one? It does not seem to me that there are these limitations in other Elf army lists, Bretonnia Vampires, etc. We are disappointed
"Remember, is a game"

Offline Ole

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 186
  • TTT
    • Loc: Hamburg
Re: [AL]Wood Elves
« Reply #117 on: April 12, 2018, 07:40:36 AM »
A defeat! I do not understand this extreme power of Wood Elf !? I ask at this point for help to understand !!!! But really now point the finger at the Dark Riders 95 pts cost absurdly Low !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe I can help. Lets look that them separately:
 
wardancers from 25 to 30 pts. 25 for a 5+ save is unreasonable.

glade riders 90 pts forget about the comparison to Dark Rider. Think Reavers.

wildriders from 100 to 115 pts They are nearly as strong as Cold ones.

waywatchers from 2/2A to 1/2A and from 70 to 60pts This is a very good compromise. This unit will nearly always break the game, because of the combination of strong shooting and ambushing. If it hasn't occurred in your games you are probably playing with way to less terrain.

only one unicorn per army. I could life with 1/1000 but the reason is simply the magic buff I suppose.

But our princess is in another castle!

Offline Leonida

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 58
    • Loc: italy
Re: [AL]Wood Elves
« Reply #118 on: April 12, 2018, 01:38:07 PM »

Thank you so much for your availability, but what you wrote I know it too !!!!!! I'm not so .. I have a lot of experience in the game, but I think you are seeing the WE with the wrong eyes seen so it will be another Army list of the wrong WE, all this fury do not understand it and I do not think I'm the only one to think so. ... Some comparisons, however, do not need to hide your head in the sand, the Dark Riders are instead an excellent example of over power!
Like many other examples Cannons !! ??. The price Wild Riders too high 115 !!!! absurd, their cost is 110! More than three quarters of the army can not take advantage of the LD10 as the strongest units (wild R. and Treekin) suffer a -1 to the LD and bring it to LD9. We are still here to discuss this incredible strength of the leadership of the WE that terrifies everyone! I accuse those who do not play with WE.You are too academic. The umpteenth opportunity to do a good job has been lost.














"Remember, is a game"

Offline Clawlessdragon

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 63
    • Loc: Kent, England
Re: [AL]Wood Elves
« Reply #119 on: April 12, 2018, 02:04:12 PM »
I was a little shocked with some of those point costs, but when compaired against other units, they do make more sense.
I can't see the wild riders being better than silverhelms or empire knights due to the low armour. In fact, wild riders are closer to boar riders.. 4/3/5 @ 110 points, except they reduce to 3 attacks after 1st round. I just remembered they are immune to fear, so maybe the 115 points is fair.
The restriction to 1 special mount does not seem fair, given other armies have access to multiple mounts.
Waywatchers are tricky, as the stats are closer to Artillery now. Hard to put a cost on them, it seems a fair compromise. Just a thought, if these are the wood elf "artillery" what's the thought of basing them short side forward?  Just a thought, a bit like pistoliers on foot with their -1 to armour.