Specialist Arms Forum
Warmaster => [WM] Warmaster Fantasy Discussion => [WM] Battlereports => Topic started by: Sazzel on December 18, 2011, 07:23:11 PM
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Ok Doob, here's my list:
Empire 1000 Points
General
Sword of Fate
Hero
6 Halberdiers
The Battle Banner
2 Crossbowmen
2 Flagellants
2 Knights
How would you like to set up the terrain? I am willing to just come up with something interesting looking, or you could, or we can take turns placing terrain.
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I have a soft spot for my Orcs, so I've put together 1000 points without magic or monsters:
Orc General
Orc Hero with Sword of Might
Orc Hero with Sword of Fate
3 Goblins
8 Orcs
2 Wolf Chariots
I've drafted a map, but feel free to shift things around. The off-centre feature is a marsh.
Orcs vs Empire.xml - 20.0 KB (http://uploading.com/files/m4fe78fm/Orcs%2Bvs%2BEmpire.xml/)
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The terrain is fine, except that I am missing some of the components that you had in your file, as you can see in the picture below:
(http://zendwarf.com/bc/wm/1/Orcs_vs_Empire_Terrain.jpg)
I have the normal component pack, perhaps you added those from somewhere else and could send them to me?
Also I added my units to the file, here is the latest:
http://zendwarf.com/bc/wm/1/Orcs_vs_Empire.xml (http://zendwarf.com/bc/wm/1/Orcs_vs_Empire.xml)
How do you want to deploy? Turn by turn or we set up separately and then someone merges the files?
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Sorry - forgot that those scenic pieces might not be standard. Links:
napoleonic_marsh_4a.png - 743.9 KB (http://uploading.com/files/aafc697d/napoleonic_marsh_4a.png/)
bc_hill2_20_25.png - 667.9 KB (http://uploading.com/files/f4e9m475/bc_hill2_20_25.png/)
bc_hill1_30_15.png - 690.5 KB (http://uploading.com/files/bcmba2cf/bc_hill1_30_15.png/)
It might speed things up if we both deploy separately and then merge the files as you suggest.
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Ok, rolling for sides, 1d6, a 1-3 I am on the bottom, 4-6 on top:
Result of the throw of dice "1d6" :
1
Ok, I am on the bottom and have deployed in the following file:
http://zendwarf.com/bc/wm/1/Orcs_vs_Empire.xml (http://zendwarf.com/bc/wm/1/Orcs_vs_Empire.xml)
No matter what I tried I could not get your components to register as the proper ones for your file after I added them, so ended up replacing them with similar stock components so we will not have missing components.
I guess just add your units to that file then post it, and roll for first turn for us both.
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Sorry about the terrain - one to remember.
We should also clarify our expectations of the terrain effects. The hills and forests are straightforward, but marshes are sometimes treated either as dense terrain ie -1 command penalty as well as movement restrictions, or just imposing movement restrictions without the command penalty. Did you have any expectations while deploying? If so, we'll stick with those.
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I did not have any expectations while deploying. Just go for one and it will be fine.
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Guys
I can "see" the XML, but how do "we" become spectators....... ??
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That is the save file. We are doing secret deployment, and once we get that set up we will post images along with the XML save files for each of our turns.
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When I added the marsh to the map, I was thinking of it as affecting movement, but without the Command penalty, so let's stick with that. So it is impassable to our cavalry, but otherwise no effect.
I sketched out my deployment, then opened the file and added my units:
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv93/dode_bucket/Warmaster%20Orcs%20v%20Empire/Orcs_vs_Empire_Deployment.jpg)
Roll for first turn 1-3 Empire 4-6 Orcs
Result of the throw of dice "1d6" :
1
If only my Command dice rolls follow this trend....over to you
Orcs_vs_Empire.xml - 53.8 KB (http://uploading.com/files/787a4793/Orcs_vs_Empire.xml/)
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Ok, so first my Hero tries to move the Flagellants, needs 8 or less:
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
4 + 3 = 7
Great, now he tries to move the nearby Halberdiers and Crossbowmen, needs 8 or less:
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
1 + 5 = 6
Succeeds. Now he tries to move those Halberdiers and Crossbowmen again, and needs a 6 or less now:
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
6 + 4 = 10
Failed, now on to my General. He tries to move Halberdiers and Crossbowmen right in front of him, needs a 9 or less:
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
5 + 4 = 9
Wow, close. Now he tries to move the Knights, 9 or less:
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
6 + 1 = 7
Great. Now he tries to move those Halberdiers and Crossbowmen right in front of him again, needs a 7 or less:
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
5 + 4 = 9
Nope. So I move my General and Hero, then that is the end of my turn. On to you.
http://zendwarf.com/bc/wm/1/Orcs_vs_Empire.xml (http://zendwarf.com/bc/wm/1/Orcs_vs_Empire.xml)
(http://zendwarf.com/bc/wm/1/Orcs_vs_Empire_E1end.png)
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Not that it seems to have mattered, but I'm not sure if this is possible:
Great. Now he tries to move those Halberdiers and Crossbowmen right in front of him again, needs a 7 or less:
I'm pretty sure you can't go back to a unit you've already issued orders to, even with the same character. My apologies if there's been some houserule or rules change I don't know of which does allow this.
Looking forward to watching this game- thanks to both of you for being the guinea pigs :)
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Geep is right that you can't return to a unit after starting to issue orders to another, but as he also noted it really didn't matter here due to the failed Command roll.
Also, I think the Knights would have been ordered on an 8 instead of 9, as they were between 20cm-40cm from the General. Again this didn't matter as a 7 was rolled.
It's all a good learning experience - now to try not to get anything wrong myself!
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well, you are playing before a live studio audience ! ( of ruleslawyers 8) )
But yeah, this is a great opportunity to follow AND comment on proceeding etc, if you two dont mind !
Tech question ? is it possibile to zoom in on the playingfield (which would be nice when you guys start doing Melee)
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Crap....ok thanks guys. For some reason I thought that you just could not go back to making orders to different characters, not units as well. Does that mean I cannot order that same unit with different characters unless I do so one right after the other? Good thing it did not matter this time, but I am of course willing to take any more mistakes I make in the future back.
Zooming in and exporting images for things like combat is possible. I will try to remember to do that when we get there.
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The correct rulesinterpretation is:
a) 1 character can order one or more units (brigade) to move one or more times. If he stops giving orders (either on account of a failed roll -F OR voluntary -V) then the unit/brigade can NOT be given additional orders in that turn.
b) If during a command/move sequence he decides to order part of a brigade, then he should keep ordering those units until a). If he voluntary stops -V, then his NEXT order should be on the remaining part of the brigade !!, note that this will count as a subsequent order with the appropriate modifiers.
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Hi Sazzel/Doob, a quick question to you both. Are you interested in more than rules feedback here? I'm thinking about tactics. From experience, uninvited tactical commentary can get pretty annoying when you're playing tabletop so I don't want to intrude.
Here's hoping I can join in with such a game one day (all I need is to wrestle the Mac into PC shape!), I'm looking forward to seeing how this game pans out.
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just have to say, that this is fantastic. 8)
if we can like make more pics and stuff of this later, post-game we can show every1 how easy n fun it is to play a game, in mere pics, while keeping it all understandable (with the arrows and stuff explaining whats all going on)
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I'm with brutalrage on this, this is great to watch and looks great to play. So much so that I've just ordered a copy of Windows so that I can mess up my Mac's brain and get in on a game.
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Okay, let's see if I can get this rabble moving.
Hero 1 tries to get Gobs1&2 to move (I miscalculated the brigade rules - too many rulesets in my head. Been playing Impetus, where if any part of the equivalent of a brigade is in range, they all are ::) So 8-1 = target 7
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
2 + 4 = 6
He nows tries to order Orcs1&2
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
2 + 3 = 5
And now Orcs7&8
And then the 2 chariot units
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
5 + 1 = 6
Hero2 now tries to order Orcs3&4
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
6 + 3 = 9
No, not moving
General now tries Gob3
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
3 + 1 = 4
They move forward to the far edge of the General's 20cm range, then he tries another command, needing 7
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
2 + 2 = 4
Finally, Gneral tries to order Orcs5&6
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
6 + 5 = 11
No, that flank hates me. Or they have a cunning refused flank strategy and haven't told me.
Finally, characters move. Your turn 2.
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv93/dode_bucket/Warmaster%20Orcs%20v%20Empire/Orcs_vs_Empire_Turn_1_Orcs.jpg)
Orcs_vs_Empire.xml - 64.6 KB (http://uploading.com/files/bembm91f/Orcs_vs_Empire.xml/)
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Hi Sazzel/Doob, a quick question to you both. Are you interested in more than rules feedback here? I'm thinking about tactics. From experience, uninvited tactical commentary can get pretty annoying when you're playing tabletop so I don't want to intrude.
Personally I'd prefer not to turn this into an open tactical debate during the game as it may suck some of the immediacy from it. But I'm quite happy to discuss tactics post-game, and I'm sure I'll learn from it, as I don't have a huge number of games under my belt.
Rules corrections are of course welcome as and when mistakes are made.
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That sounds sensible to me. I'll be very interested to hear the post-game discussion, I've got lots to learn about WM.
A couple of questions if I may. How do do you measure distances, and how do you automate the dice rolls?
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How do do you measure distances
Battle Chronicler has several built-in rulers that you can use to measure distances. You can also wheel and advance units by set amounts.
how do you automate the dice rolls
Unfortunately Battle Chronicler doesn't have that built in, but there are numerous web sites that provide virtual dice rolling, and many also allow you to set up a dice log to share with your opponent to prove everything is done fairly.
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Ok, so my Hero tries to order the Flagellants, and needs 8 - 1(Dense Terrain). So a 7 or less:
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
2 + 1 = 3
Made it and they form lines. Now the Hero tries to order the nearby Halberdiers and Crossbowmen, its right-most unit is just within 20cm of the Hero, so he needs an 8 or less:
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
2 + 4 = 6
Success, they move forward and form lines. He tries to move them again. Now a -1 for further orders, -1 for 20+cm, and a -1 for being within 20cm of the enemy, so needs a 5:
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
2 + 3 = 5
Success! He's on a bloody roll. Not gonna push his luck though. Moving on the the General.
The General tries to move the unit directly in front of him. Needs a 9 or less:
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
2 + 1 = 3
Cake. Now the General tries to move the Knights. One unit of them appears to be at 20cm, so -1 and a 8 or less:
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
2 + 3 = 5
Great. Now, I am going to move them sideways to my left, as long as no stand in a unit crosses an already moved stand in its unit or a stand in any other unit I can just move them in whatever direction right? So used to proper wheeling in WHFB.
Ok, now the General will try to move them again, with -1 for further orders, but they are all within 20cm now so no penalty for distance, 8 or less to make it:
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
3 + 5 = 8
Whoohoo! Ok, well, I feel satisfied with my movement, and all I could order now is my Knights, who seem to be in a prime position.
Moving on to the Shooting Phase.
Looks like my Crossbows on my right and on my left are in range of your Orcs1, so they will all shoot at them. Shooting is indicated by yellow arrows. That is 6 stands with 1 Attack Dice each, so 6 dice at 4+ to hit:
Result of the throw of dice "6d6" :
4 + 1 + 4 + 3 + 1 + 1 = 14
Bleh...2 hits. You have a 6+ armour save (I am rolling for you to save back and forth time, I hope you don't mind, please do the same for me):
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
6 + 3 = 9
You made one! Wow. Ok so you take one hit, which does nothing but drive you back d6 cm:
Result of the throw of dice "1d6" :
2
Hah! Driven back two cm. I will put a red arrow on the map to represent that, but let you move them back and decided about making way. I think that completes my turn, over to you.
http://zendwarf.com/bc/wm/1/Orcs_vs_Empire.xml (http://zendwarf.com/bc/wm/1/Orcs_vs_Empire.xml)
Here is a map 'close-up':
(http://zendwarf.com/bc/wm/1/Orcs_vs_Empire_2Eendclose.png)
And an overview (looks like I need to fiddle with the setting to get the overview to not show individual stands):
(http://zendwarf.com/bc/wm/1/Orcs_vs_Empire_2Eend.png)
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A couple of questions if I may. How do do you measure distances, and how do you automate the dice rolls?
There is also the grid you can set up. Now we have it so the major grid lines are 20cm apart, and the minor lines 1cm apart. In addition, when you are moving a stand/unit, there is an indicator that says how many units of your set standard distance it is from where you started moving it.
Personally I have been using Hamete http://dicelog.com (http://dicelog.com) which also lets you have verified logs if needed, although I am lazy and trusting. I am not as competitive as I used to be when younger.
As far as tactical commentary, I respect Doob's opinion, and so we can leave that off till the game is over, but am personally open to it in other games if my opponent is as well.
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Bah! Just realized that I should have had to shoot at the nearby Goblins with my left-most unit of Crossbowmen, meh, just disregard that hit on your Orcs then, 2 centimeters would not have made a difference anyways. And I so thought I had not made any mistakes this time..
Not sure if I noted it previously but my right-most unit of Crossbowmen I deemed unable to see the Goblins in the Woods as they appeared to be more than 2cm in.
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@Sazzel
Once you started to give a command to a unit/brigade you are not allowed anymore to use another hero to give orders to this unit/brigad during that turn.You can give multiple orders to the unit/brigade allways applying the subsequent command penalties (outside 20, 40 etc. cm range, enemy within 20cm range of unit, unit in dense terrain...etc.) but once a command failed the unit/brigade halts for that turn (only exception is movement with magic but this is only possible once per turn for a single unit only)
Regards
Claus
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Yea, I am pretty sure I did not make that mistake this turn though.
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As far as tactical commentary, I respect Doob's opinion, and so we can leave that off till the game is over, but am personally open to it in other games if my opponent is as well.
personally i agree with doob, as its much more fun when u not know what your opponent is doing/planning on doing.
its better imo to have a chat after the game to talk about ideas/strats/execution etc.
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I was suggesting comments from us observers rather than the players, but either way, I agree that post-game will be better.
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I was suggesting comments from us observers rather than the players, but either way, I agree that post-game will be better.
We could start a seperate topic for it during the game, which will keep the main topic uncluttered
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Hero2 orders Orcs5&6
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
1 + 2 = 3
Then orders Orcs3&4
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
2 + 6 = 8
And tries again, needing 7
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
1 + 1 = 2
Then tries to order Gobs3 needing 7 due to proximity of enemy
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
1 + 5 = 6
Hero1 will try to Order Gobs1 in Woods needing 7
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
4 + 1 = 5
And tries to then order Gobs2 needing 6 (-1 for distance and -1 for dense terrain)
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
5 + 2 = 7
Nope.
General tries to order both Chariots
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
1 + 5 = 6
Then tries to move Orcs1&2
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
1 + 1 = 2
Some lucky rolling there. Now leaders move.
Goblins will shoot their bows at nearest enemy - Halberdiers. 3 shots needs 4s
Result of the throw of dice "3d6" :
5 + 4 + 5 = 14
3 hits!
Rolling your saves on 6s
Result of the throw of dice "3d6" :
3 + 6 + 4 = 13
1 saved - darn it as that isn't enough to cause a wound.
Roll for drive back
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
4 + 1 = 5
so 5cm
That's the end of my turn, and I'll leave the drive back and any related decisions on making way to you.
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv93/dode_bucket/Warmaster%20Orcs%20v%20Empire/Orcs_vs_Empire_Turn_2_Orcs.jpg)
Orcs_vs_Empire.xml - 87.1 KB (http://uploading.com/files/388be993/Orcs_vs_Empire.xml/)
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the opportunity to watch this game unfold is much appreciated
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So I have my Halberdiers right behind the Halberdiers being driven back make way, so they both move back 5cm. Will the original unit and/or the unit making way become confused?
Rolling "1d6" 2 times
1: 4
2: 5
Nope neither do. So here is a shot of the end of the Orcs 2nd turn:
(http://zendwarf.com/bc/wm/1/Orcs_vs_Empire_2Oend.png)
This will be a complex turn for me, hope I do not mess up too much. Moving guys by initiative - Halberdiers5 is charging Goblins1. You Goblins1 get to shoot at them, 3 attacks at 4+ to hit:
Result of the throw of dice "3d6" :
6 + 2 + 6 = 14
Bah 2 hits, 2 saves at 6+
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
2 + 6 = 8
One save! Ok they take one into combat.
Now Flagellants1 due to its rules, has to charge Goblins1. They have one stand I think?? that is available to shoot now, so 1 dice 4+ to hit:
Result of the throw of dice "1d6" :
4
Hit, and 6+ save:
Result of the throw of dice "1d6" :
3
No save, so they go into combat with a wound as well. Here is a shot after those moves:
(http://zendwarf.com/bc/wm/1/Orcs_vs_Empire_3E1.png)
Luckily, Flagellants2 is out of range of Orcs3, so they do not have to charge them. Ok, on to orders. The Hero is going to order the Flagellants2, 7 or less since -1 with enemy within 20cm:
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
2 + 6 = 8
Ouch! Now just my General left to order....He orders the Halberdiers4, needs 8 or less with enemy nearby:
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
3 + 2 = 5
Makes it, now orders the Knights, needs a 9 or less:
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
2 + 1 = 3
Makes it, now tries to order them again, now they have been ordered once -1, are within 20cm of the enemy -1, and so needs a 7 or less:
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
5 + 1 = 6
Yay! They get to charges the Orcs1! Hmmm, ok I will pause here because this bring me to a question, I just ordered the brigade of knights, and want to charge Orcs1 with them, but am not sure if I can do so with both units of Knights. The picture of the point I am at is shown below.
Note that the little explosions are wound counters, and that despite the locations of the movement arrows for the Knights automatically drawn by Battle Chronicler, the Knights moved through the gap between the two nearby infantry brigades.
(http://zendwarf.com/bc/wm/1/Orcs_vs_Empire_3E2.png)
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After the charge of Halberdiers ALL the Gob stands are in combat. NO shooting at the flagelants.
!! some metaenvironments play the initiative charging by doing MANDATORY charges before "initiative" charges........ !!
On the "knightly" movement through the gap, remember to measure each stand individualy, which in effect means that you should be around 28cm direct forward from your original position.......
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Although my opinion is far from expert, I'd say that both knights units probably could charge Orc unit 1, and will get all stands into contact. Knight Unit 1 should move first, but i don't think that will make a big difference.
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I'd reckon both units of knights should be able get into combat, so go for. And I agree with Lex that the Goblins couldn't shoot at the Flagellants as the stand at the end is corner to corner with Halbardiers, so no wound on the Flagellants.
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Per procedure... and as I have no ruler,I will guestimate the distance from K1 to the Orcs is app 13 cm ?
Move nearest stand of K1 (left hand one) to the CENTRE of the rightmost stand of Orcs.
Allign the next stand of K1 to the RIGHT of the first one (on account of the rule that you need to try and maximize the frontage of your charge)
The3th stand again goes on the RIGHT of the one previously places
K2 now should still have LOS on the orcs.
1stand of K2 to move will be placed against the CENTRE of the leftmost stand of orcs !
2d stand goes to the LEFT of the placed stand (as per the Max frontage rule)
3t stand will be tricky... as I am not totaly sure it will have room, but ifit dont cross or ends up partly in terrain, then it should go to the RIGHT of the 1st K2 stand.
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this is cool, its like havin a 5 man referee team helpin out your game :D
this is so cool :)
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Ok thanks guys, am about to go to work, ~8am here now, so Doob I will continue my turn tonight.
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Agree with all above, very amusing! :)
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To help speed things along, I'll roll the attacks for my Goblins, which will all be directed against your Halberdiers.
6 attacks:
Result of the throw of dice "6d6" :
6 + 3 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 4 = 22
3 hits to save at 6s
Result of the throw of dice "3d6" :
5 + 5 + 3 = 13
So that's 4 wounds inc shooting - 1 Halberdier stand lost and 1 wound carried over. But I'm not expecting the goblins to get another chance of hitting anything....
I'm not sure how your Knights will end up facing off against my Orcs so I'll let you deal with it once you've moved your Knights. I assume I'll get 2 stands hitting 1 unit and the other stand only able to hit the other unit. If there is a choice, let's say the 2 stands nearest the table centre hit one unit, and the stand nearest the woods hits the other unit.
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Ok, discounted the wound against my Flagellants, and have moved my Knights forward:
(http://zendwarf.com/bc/wm/1/Orcs_vs_Empire_3E3.png)
Now the General orders Crossbowmen2 and Halberdiers6, within 20cm of enemy so needs a 8:
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
2 + 2 = 4
Made it, now he orders the brigade to his right, within 20cm of enemy so an 8 or less:
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
5 + 5 = 10
Failed, they do nothing. Move my Hero and General now on to shooting.
My Crossbowmen2 shoot at Orcs7, 3 attacks at 4+ to hit:
Result of the throw of dice "3d6" :
5 + 5 + 5 = 15
Nice 3 hits, 6+ to save:
Result of the throw of dice "3d6" :
2 + 4 + 4 = 10
No saves! Ok, I think a stand of Orcs bites the dust, I will let you do the drive back rolls. Here is the image of now before we start combat:
(http://zendwarf.com/bc/wm/1/Orcs_vs_Empire_3E4.png)
We will do the combat with your Goblins3 first. You already rolled for the Goblins and knocked a stand off the Halberdiers. Seems like the Gobbos are in the open, and I am charging, so +1 to each stand, Halberdiers get 4 hits per stand then and 12 attacks total, 4+ to hit:
Result of the throw of dice "12d6" :
6 + 1 + 1 + 4 + 6 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 6 + 1 + 3 + 6 = 49
Goblins have no armour save so that is 8 wounds. One wound left.
Assuming that the attacks amongst different units in the same combat happen simultaneously, my Flagellants have two stands in contact at attack 5, with +1 for charging in the open, that is 12 attacks 4+ to hit:
Result of the throw of dice "12d6" :
3 + 2 + 6 + 1 + 2 + 6 + 3 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 3 + 6 = 35
Wow, only 3, Goblins are still wiped though. Hmm..now what happens? Flagellants have to Advance into Orcs5. My Halberdiers hold their ground. Here we are:
(http://zendwarf.com/bc/wm/1/Orcs_vs_Empire_3E5.png)
Now we work out Flagellants and Orcs5. You are defended due to being on top of a hill, so I need 5+ to hit and do not get a charging bonus, so 15 attacks at 5+ to hit:
Result of the throw of dice "15d6" :
1 + 5 + 4 + 6 + 6 + 2 + 4 + 1 + 2 + 5 + 1 + 2 + 2 + 5 + 5 = 51
6 wounds, 6+ armour save:
Result of the throw of dice "6d6" :
4 + 1 + 5 + 1 + 6 + 5 = 22
Saved one, so 5 wounds on Orcs5. Now they attack back, 12 attacks at 4+ to hit:
Result of the throw of dice "12d6" :
6 + 5 + 4 + 1 + 6 + 5 + 6 + 4 + 6 + 4 + 5 + 5 = 57
:o wowee....11 wounds. Ouch! Those Orcs smacked down those Flagellants literally. How brutal. Hmm, well, I suppose the Orcs just sit there then gloating over the pile of bodies? No advance or reform or anything?
Note in the pictures that a unit a lot lighter than others means it is destroyed, as in the picture below the Goblins3 and Flagellants1 are destroyed.
(http://zendwarf.com/bc/wm/1/Orcs_vs_Empire_3E6.png)
On to the Knights v Orcs1, is this the unit that has The Battle Banner? Knights are charging in the open so +1 attack per stand, and 5 stands total are touching, so 20 attacks, 4+ to hit:
Result of the throw of dice "20d6" :
6 + 1 + 5 + 2 + 4 + 6 + 6 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 1 + 6 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 1 + 4 + 6 + 4 + 3 = 79
13 hits, 6+ to save:
Result of the throw of dice "13d6" :
2 + 2 + 1 + 3 + 3 + 6 + 2 + 3 + 6 + 1 + 4 + 6 + 2 = 41
3 saves, but 10 got through so they will die, now you attack back, dunno if you have The Battle Banner on that unit or not. Completing this combat should end my turn. Here is the battle with the knights at this point:
http://zendwarf.com/bc/wm/1/Orcs_vs_Empire.xml (http://zendwarf.com/bc/wm/1/Orcs_vs_Empire.xml)
(http://zendwarf.com/bc/wm/1/Orcs_vs_Empire_3E7.png)
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The Knights wiping the orcs in 1st roind of combat will have a 20cm Advance move, nearest target = orcs2, so you still have one more fight to fight, and even if you DONT want to fight you would need to roll for Fallback.
And after you need both to do Reform after Combat.
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Brutal combat! I think my Orcs on the hill got off fairly lightly. Not the ones facing the Knights though!
First though, the shooting drive back for Orcs 7. I remove the stand nearest the General as casualties, then roll 3 dice:
Result of the throw of dice "3d6" :
6 + 4 + 5 = 15
Whoah, they didn't like that at all! So 15cm and confused (we need a confused marker - for now I've used a skull beside the unit to remind me). Unit behind will make way by moving aside the 2 stands in the way.
Test Orcs8 for confusion from moving aside:
Result of the throw of dice "1d6" :
4
Chariot unit also has to shuffle slightly aside:
Result of the throw of dice "1d6" :
4
They're fine too.
Orcs5 on the hill will Fall Back after winning the comabt with the Flagellants:
Result of the throw of dice "3d6" :
2 + 4 + 3 = 9
So they can move between 3 and 9cm, so they move off to one side
Let's see what the soon to be dead Orcs1 can manage in return against the Knights (and I don't have any Banners in my army).
2 stands attack Knights1 with 8 attacks:
Result of the throw of dice "8d6" :
6 + 1 + 4 + 4 + 4 + 2 + 6 + 2 = 29
5 hits saved on 4+
Result of the throw of dice "5d6" :
3 + 3 + 2 + 3 + 2 = 13
Ouch, fluky roll - 5 wounds so 1 stand lost and 2 wounds carried over.
Remaining stand does 4 attacks on Knights 2
Result of the throw of dice "4d6" :
2 + 1 + 1 + 5 = 9
Only 1 hit, save on 4+
Result of the throw of dice "1d6" :
2
So that is 1 wound on Knights 2
Since the Orcs were wiped out, your Knights can now decide whether to hold, fall back or advance. I've updated the map up to this point. Over to you again before we get to the Orc turn.
Oh, and we should probably clarify which of our units have the magic items. Orc Hero 1 has the Sword of Might. Hero2 has the Sword of Fate. Which Halberdiers have the Battle Banner?
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv93/dode_bucket/Warmaster%20Orcs%20v%20Empire/Orcs_vs_Empire_Turn_3_Empire.jpg)
Orcs_vs_Empire.xml - 100.2 KB (http://uploading.com/files/6b4ccd52/Orcs_vs_Empire.xml/)
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Ok, my Knights advance into the Orcs in front of them, and I forgot to move my Hero and General, even though I said I did, so I hope you don't mind that I nudged them up to reasonable positions. Now the Knights get +1 for charging in the open and have 5 stands, so that is 20 attacks at 4+ to hit:
Result of the throw of dice "20d6" :
1 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 1 + 2 + 3 + 6 + 3 + 2 + 6 + 3 + 5 + 4 + 3 + 3 + 1 + 6 + 3 + 3 = 64
Wow, only 6 hits, 6+ to save:
Result of the throw of dice "6d6" :
1 + 6 + 5 + 1 + 3 + 3 = 19
One save, so five wounds. Now the Orcs get to attack back, but you get to direct to attacks, so I will let you do that, and work out the results of that.
I have The Battle Banner on Halberdiers1, and The Sword of Fate on my General.
http://zendwarf.com/bc/wm/1/Orcs_vs_Empire.xml (http://zendwarf.com/bc/wm/1/Orcs_vs_Empire.xml)
(http://zendwarf.com/bc/wm/1/Orcs_vs_Empire_3E8.png)
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That's fine to move your characters.
2 stands attack Knights 2 with 8 attacks
Result of the throw of dice "8d6" :
5 + 2 + 3 + 3 + 6 + 3 + 6 + 4 = 32
4 saves at 4+
Result of the throw of dice "4d6" :
2 + 1 + 3 + 2 = 8
Another flucky roll - that's 4 wounds
Remaining stand attacks Knights 1
Result of the throw of dice "4d6" :
3 + 1 + 2 + 2 = 8
Darn, no hits
So that is 5 wounds on me, 4 on you. I retreat 1 cm and it is back to you to choose whether to pursue, stand or fall back.
Orcs_vs_Empire.xml - 101.1 KB (http://uploading.com/files/m38d678a/Orcs_vs_Empire.xml/)
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv93/dode_bucket/Warmaster%20Orcs%20v%20Empire/Orcs_vs_Empire_Turn_3_Empire_1.jpg)
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these orcs are tough! and ferocious :D
lovin it!
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The Knights pursue, and end up like so:
(http://zendwarf.com/bc/wm/1/Orcs_vs_Empire_3E9.png)
+1 attack per stand for pursuit, 4 stands, so 16 attacks at 4+ to hit:
Result of the throw of dice "16d6" :
3 + 4 + 4 + 2 + 2 + 5 + 2 + 5 + 6 + 3 + 6 + 4 + 2 + 2 + 6 + 5 = 61
9 hits, 6+ saves:
Result of the throw of dice "9d6" :
1 + 6 + 1 + 4 + 1 + 3 + 6 + 3 + 4 = 29
7 wounds, and the Orcs2 die, but not before they attack back. This is easy this time since there is only one stand in contact with each unit of Knights. 4 attacks against Knights1, 4+ to hit:
Result of the throw of dice "4d6" :
3 + 6 + 2 + 6 = 17
2 hits, 4+ to save:
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
6 + 4 = 10
Nice, both saved. Now 4 attacks against Knights2, 4+ to hit:
Result of the throw of dice "4d6" :
6 + 4 + 6 + 2 = 18
3 hits, 4+ to save:
Result of the throw of dice "3d6" :
1 + 3 + 6 = 10
Bah, only one saved.
(http://zendwarf.com/bc/wm/1/Orcs_vs_Empire_3E10.png)
Now the Knights1 and Knights2 reform, and that is the end of the Combat Phase, so odd hits are discounted, and we move on to your turn. Here is the lay of the land at the end of my turn:
http://zendwarf.com/bc/wm/1/Orcs_vs_Empire.xml (http://zendwarf.com/bc/wm/1/Orcs_vs_Empire.xml)
(http://zendwarf.com/bc/wm/1/Orcs_vs_Empire_3E11.png)
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Hey, guys! Great looking game so far - I'll have to look into this system and maybe give a game a try.
One note - a detail really. On the Orc players last turn, some Goblins shot at and drove back a unit of Halberdiers. You had them fall straight back towards the table edge, only forcing interaction with the unit behind them. They should have been driven straight away from the closest unit which shot at them, and thus may have been forced into the two units to their right, as well. (I think by the rules on Drivebacks - pg. 29 in the online rulebook - and with only a 5cm move, you can get the same result, it would have just looked different...)
I don't think it would have had any impact on the game, mostly telling you for future reference!
Tristan
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@Tristan - I didn't notice at the time, but I suspect you are right. Oh well, not to worry.
So the Orcs are 3 units down for only 1 Empire unit. Time to Waaagh I think!
Impetus charges:
Chariot unit charges Knights1
Orcs 8 charge Crossbows 2
Reaction shooting by crossbows:
Result of the throw of dice "3d6" :
6 + 3 + 1 = 10
1 hit save on 6
Result of the throw of dice "1d6" :
3
No, so 1 wound on Orcs as they charge
Orcs 5 charge flank of Halbeldiers 5 and 6
Orcs6 charge Halberdiers 5
On to regular orders:
Hero2 tries to order Orcs3&4
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
3 + 1 = 4
They move south and closer to the Flagellants. Positions at this point:
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv93/dode_bucket/Warmaster%20Orcs%20v%20Empire/Orcs_vs_Empire_Turn_3_Orcs1.jpg)
-2 for second move and proximity to enemy
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
4 + 2 = 6
Just made it - Orcs4 charge the front of the Flagellants and Orcs 3 charge the flank
Hero1 tries to order most distant unit of Goblins - needs 6 or less
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
1 + 1 = 2
They shuffle forward
Orc General tries to order remaining Chariots
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
3 + 2 = 5
They move east towards the flank of the lone stand of Knight
Tries for another move at -3, so needs a 5
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
6 + 5 = 11
Fails
Characters move - Hero 1 joins Orcs8 in battle
And Orcs7 lose their Confused status
Pic at the end of movement
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv93/dode_bucket/Warmaster%20Orcs%20v%20Empire/Orcs_vs_Empire_Turn_3_Orcs2.jpg)
Combat:
Chariots vs Knights
15 attacks
Result of the throw of dice "15d6" :
3 + 2 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 1 + 4 + 1 + 3 + 5 + 6 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 3 = 52
7 hits saved on 4+
Result of the throw of dice "7d6" :
4 + 1 + 5 + 4 + 2 + 2 + 5 = 23
That's 3 wounds
6 attacks back
Result of the throw of dice "6d6" :
2 + 5 + 4 + 1 + 5 + 6 = 23
4 hits saved on 6s
Result of the throw of dice "4d6" :
5 + 1 + 6 + 1 = 13
So 3 wounds too, and both sides fall back. The order we do that in may be important, so I think we are supposed to dice off for the choice of moving first or second. My roll
Result of the throw of dice "1d6" :
4
I'll move on to the other combats and we can do the Fall Backs later.
Orcs6 and 1 stand of Orcs5 against the Halberdiers - 20 attacks
Result of the throw of dice "20d6" :
5 + 1 + 6 + 6 + 4 + 4 + 1 + 2 + 1 + 3 + 6 + 1 + 2 + 3 + 6 + 4 + 5 + 6 + 6 + 3 = 75
11 hits saved on 6
Result of the throw of dice "11d6" :
4 + 4 + 2 + 4 + 1 + 3 + 2 + 1 + 5 + 1 + 2 = 29
Unit wiped out
1stand attacks Halberdiers4
Result of the throw of dice "5d6" :
1 + 4 + 2 + 4 + 4 = 15
3 hits saved on 6s
Result of the throw of dice "3d6" :
3 + 5 + 3 = 11
3 wounds
As you can split your return attacks across 2 units, I'll leave the Empire attacks for you
Orcs3 & 4 vs Flagellants - 4 Orc stands so 20 dice
Result of the throw of dice "20d6" :
1 + 1 + 5 + 4 + 6 + 1 + 3 + 6 + 5 + 3 + 6 + 4 + 5 + 3 + 2 + 5 + 1 + 6 + 5 + 1 = 73
11 wounds so unit wiped out
The Flagellants could split their attacks between my units, so I'll let you decide this, and roll for the attacks yourself.
I'll leave it there before resolving the combat with the Crossbows as possible pursuit from this combat could affect that one.
So, still to do:
Resolve Fall backs from Chariots vs Knights
Resolve Flagellant attacks
Resolve Halbardier5 attacks and conclude combat
Then resolve combat with Crossbows
Tidy up reforming after combat etc
And since it is now almost Christmas here, Merry Christmas everyone!
Orcs_vs_Empire.xml - 110.8 KB (http://uploading.com/files/79eaa791/Orcs_vs_Empire.xml/)
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv93/dode_bucket/Orcs_vs_Empire_Turn_3_Orcs.jpg)
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Merry Christmas everybody.
Resolve Fall backs from Chariots vs Knights
My d6:
Result of the throw of dice "1d6" :
3
Resolve Flagellant attacks
Flagellants 15 attacks at Orcs4, 4+ to hit:
Result of the throw of dice "15d6" :
1 + 2 + 1 + 4 + 3 + 6 + 3 + 6 + 1 + 2 + 3 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 4 = 45
Fail. 5 wounds. 6+ save:
Result of the throw of dice "5d6" :
2 + 1 + 6 + 6 + 2 = 17
Lol, 2 saves, so 3 wounds.
Resolve Halbardier5 attacks and conclude combat
Halberdiers5 splits half against both, with Halberdiers4 getting one stand attacking Orcs5. 3 attacks 4+ to hit against Orcs6:
Result of the throw of dice "3d6" :
2 + 3 + 6 = 11
One hit, 6+ save:
Result of the throw of dice "1d6" :
4
One wound against Orcs6, now 6 attacks against Orcs5, 4+ to hit:
Result of the throw of dice "6d6" :
6 + 4 + 1 + 3 + 5 + 2 = 21
3 hits, 6+ to save:
Result of the throw of dice "3d6" :
6 + 4 + 5 = 15
Damn, one save so 2 wounds on Orcs5.
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I think that after the game we should streamline this and put it on theWarmaster Forum as a sticky: Warmaster 101.
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great idea lex!
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Something to remember is that stands attacked on the flank or rear get 1 less attack. So I think the flagellants should have had 1 less attack, also there should have been 2 less attacks on Orcs5. Still, I think I got off fairly lightly so I'm happy to ignore it.
The next steps in the central combat need some care if I'm to get them right. People chip in if I go astray:
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv93/dode_bucket/Warmaster%20Orcs%20v%20Empire/Orcs_vs_Empire_Turn_3_Orcs4.jpg)
Combat result: Orc units inflicted total of 14 unsaved wounds, and the Halberdiers inflicted 3. So a difference of 11 with no supporting stands on either side. Halberdiers have to retreat - 11cm halved because of the 2 Empire units, then rounded up to 6cm. And I believe the retreat has to be sideways away from Orcs5 because Orcs6 are not in contact with the surviving Halberdiers.
The Halberdiers have lost 1 stand in the combat, and I think the only one that it would make sense to lose is the east most one, as otherwise it would be destroyed by retreating into friends in combat.
Finally, I believe that only Orcs5 can pursue as Orcs6 are no longer touching any units in the combat. Orcs6 can advance into combat, but this is supposed to be resolved after the existing combat engagement. So first of all, Orcs5 pursue.
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv93/dode_bucket/Warmaster%20Orcs%20v%20Empire/Orcs_vs_Empire_Turn_3_Orcs7.jpg)
Not sure if the Empire Hero would get pulled in by the pursuing stand that loops round the rear on not - have assumed not but include him and his attacks if you wish.
Combat between Orcs and Halberdiers
Orcs stands get 4 attacks + 1 attack for pursuit +2 attacks for 6cm pursuit, so 7 attacks each.
Result of the throw of dice "14d6" :
6 + 3 + 4 + 1 + 2 + 4 + 3 + 4 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 1 + 4 + 4 = 45
7 hits save on 6
Result of the throw of dice "7d6" :
2 + 5 + 3 + 4 + 1 + 2 + 3 = 20
No saves so unit destroyed.
Attacks back by Halberdiers - 2 attacks by each stand (-1 for flank/rear)
Result of the throw of dice "4d6" :
6 + 4 + 6 + 2 = 18
3 hits save on 6
Result of the throw of dice "3d6" :
2 + 3 + 5 = 10
No saves, so that takes the Orcs to 5 woulds between the last round and this, and unit just barely survives with one stand. They then Fall Back from the combat.
Result of the throw of dice "3d6" :
3 + 1 + 2 = 6
6cm
So I think the resulting situation is as below
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv93/dode_bucket/Warmaster%20Orcs%20v%20Empire/Orcs_vs_Empire_Turn_3_Orcs6.jpg)
And next, Orcs6 do their Advance, which will be into the flank of the Crossbows and Halberdiers. I'll need to do that as another post.
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Actualy you need to do that as PART of the pervious one. The combat is handeled per round, so you are right that Orc6 can opt to Advance, but they need to do so BEFORE a next round of combat is fought !!
So in this case, should they wish to advance they will do so against the retrating halbards. Advance is charge so, centre to centre with one stand fighting C2C
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Thanks Lex. I find the text on p49 of the rules quite difficult to follow through in practice, and was thrown by the text that noted "If the unit has advanced out of a combat engagement that is not finished (as can sometimes happen in large engagements) then complete the original combat engagement before going on to the new one." I failed to realise that the Advance would happen prior to completing the engagement.
Is there a sequence for who moves first after the retreating Halberdiers? Is it the advancing unit, or the pursuing unit, or player's choice? It may not always matter, but I guess it could affect the placing of stands?
As far as this game is concerned, I'll just assume that Orcs6 chose to hold position. On to the combat between Orcs8 and the Crossbows
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv93/dode_bucket/Warmaster%20Orcs%20v%20Empire/Orcs_vs_Empire_Turn_3_Orcs6.jpg)
Orcs8 vs Crossbows - 17 attacks (inc 2 for the Hero with Sword of Might)
Result of the throw of dice "17d6" :
4 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 1 + 2 + 4 + 4 + 6 + 2 + 3 + 6 + 1 + 4 + 1 + 5 + 4 = 56
9 hits = 9 wounds so unit destroyed
9 attacks back by crossbows
Result of the throw of dice "9d6" :
1 + 3 + 3 + 1 + 4 + 5 + 6 + 3 + 3 = 29
3 hits saved on 6
Result of the throw of dice "3d6" :
6 + 3 + 6 = 15
Lucky Orcs again - 1 wound
Orcs advance into combat with Halberdiers carrying 2 wounds
17 attacks again
Result of the throw of dice "17d6" :
3 + 5 + 1 + 6 + 3 + 1 + 4 + 5 + 4 + 4 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 4 + 1 + 4 + 2 = 56
9 hits saved on 6
Result of the throw of dice "9d6" :
6 + 3 + 6 + 5 + 2 + 6 + 5 + 5 + 4 = 42
3 saved so 6 wounds
9 attacks back
Result of the throw of dice "9d6" :
3 + 5 + 1 + 3 + 6 + 3 + 4 + 2 + 2 = 29
3 hits saved on 6
Result of the throw of dice "3d6" :
6 + 4 + 3 = 13
2 wounds
So Halberdiers lose 2 stands, Orcs lose 1 stand and carry 1 wound, and Halberds are pushed back 4cm. Orcs pursue.
Orcs get 6 attacks per stand (4 +1 for Pursuit +1 for 4cm retreat) and 2 attacks for Hero = 14 attacks
Result of the throw of dice "14d6" :
6 + 3 + 4 + 1 + 4 + 2 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 2 + 5 + 6 + 1 + 4 = 47
6 hits saved on 6
Result of the throw of dice "6d6" :
3 + 1 + 4 + 4 + 4 + 4 = 20
No saves so unit destroyed
3 attacks back
Result of the throw of dice "3d6" :
5 + 5 + 6 = 16
3 hits saved on 6
Result of the throw of dice "3d6" :
3 + 3 + 3 = 9
3 wounds, so Orcs just survive with 2 wounds on their last stand. And I think at that point the Empire army has lost half its units and is forced to withdraw.
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv93/dode_bucket/Warmaster%20Orcs%20v%20Empire/Orcs_vs_Empire_Turn_3_Orcs_final.jpg)
Thanks very much for the game Sassel. I think the dice were very kind to me (sometimes I was wishing I had started a dice log as as a string of good rolls starts to get embarrassing), especially in that last turn, and I could easily have run out of steam, allowing you to possibly finish me off in your next turn. Aside from the first turn, my virtual Orcs behaved much better than my table top ones, who always seem to have one flank that never moves.
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Whoa! LOL That was brutal. Did not think I would log in to see the latest post and find out I was annihilated. :o :P
Good game, very instructive. I will have to look closely at the posts for your last turn to see how those complex combats were worked out.
Was it generally a poor idea for me to set up my infantry with Support? Since it does not help with combat itself, only holding a battle line, and seems to make flanking attacks twice as devastating.
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i think what u did was fine bro, however it seems you got out-manouvered by the orcs.
they held their left flank (for you right) in check, trying to hold the ground, and then made a sweep with the other flank.
this is what caused alot of the flanking.... also your flagellants not doin much does not help at all
also i think u could have done more with your knights.
for next game try to use your inf as bait, as to force openings, and then knights to destroy openings that you get. remember that your knights are strong in the open against basically anything.
what could also have worked well was some arty in the form of cannons. i dont remember how big this battle was, but in 2K i always try to include some, as it can force more openings.
the game of warmaster is one of manouvering. seeing the larger picture, instead of the more zoomed in view of the warhammer games, where its all about building beardy lists :P
just keep playing and soon you will find yourself doin fancy manouvers, like a pincer move or w/e :P
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On the sequence of pursuit and Advances....
we normaly do Pursuits first and Advances After, as for the Advancing unit this means theyenter a NEW combar........
Folling the pursuitsequence from the LRF/errata by the letter is prety straightforward.
In short
1) move stands that had frontal contact directly forward AND in the same position )which is what you did)
2) move stands that can make frontal contact (note that you do NOT need to extend frontage !! but need at least 5mm room for frontal contact
2a) remember that it can move "around " stuff or through to small a gap !!
2b) remember it needs to retain unit integrety
3) move other stands in C2C contact (where possible) or in support not rules 2a' and 2b) apply
I think you handeled it correctly btw
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The one thing that comes to mind is how you guys defined the swamp.... with stand (partly) in the swam and the swamped markesd a defended terrain those combats WILL have a diffferent outcome.
I you guys dont mind doing a bit more, then assume the swamp GIVES defended and redo that last round, that should also show everyone the effect of the proper amount of terrain on the table.
I am realy looking forward to trying myhand at this, using Battlespeak seems like punching my program cards compared to the speed of this game !!
KUDOS !
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@Sazzel - Your question about support is an interesting one that I haven't really thought about before. I think there were a few factors particular to our game and the infantry units we used:
the units that fought in our game were relatively squishy with at best saves of 6, and in several cases no armour at all
Orcs throw out a lot of attacks (and die very easily)
I don't think the Orcs really had any below-average rolling to hit in any of the infantry combats
So infantry tended to die before support could come into play. However, with below average dice rolling, or units with better armour saves (like Elf spearmen or Black orcs), support could become more of a factor.
@Lex - I'm happy to re-run the central fight assuming defensible terrain. I suspect the Orcs won't do nearly as well. I'll download an earlier version of the file and re-do it.
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@Lex - I'm happy to re-run the central fight assuming defensible terrain. I suspect the Orcs won't do nearly as well. I'll download an earlier version of the file and re-do it.
Much obliged.... I had actualy assumed you DID define it that way during set°up but when I checked back I noticed you had not played it that way.
Playing marshlands, it is save to assume:
- command mods for being in it
- defensive mods for being in it
and you need to establish if they have a LOS effect.
- no LOS blockage or
- looking / out like woods
if you feel REAL nasty, make them hazardous as well......
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Okay, resetting the game to here, and assuming swamp is defensible terrain:
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv93/dode_bucket/Warmaster%20Orcs%20v%20Empire/Orcs_vs_Empire_alt_Turn_3_Orcs1.jpg)
Orcs6 will attack Halberdiers5, and Orcs5 will attack Halberdiers4.
Halberdiers5 have right stand partly in swamp, and left stand wholly outside. So 2 stands of Orcs6 can attack normally with 10 attacks at 4+, and 1 stand of Orcs6 can get 4 attacks at 5+
Both stands of Orcs5 are attacking into terrain so they'll get 8 attacks at 5+
Orcs6 attacks, 4+ ones first:
Result of the throw of dice "10d6" :
1 + 2 + 1 + 4 + 1 + 3 + 6 + 5 + 5 + 6 = 34
5 hits saved on 6
Result of the throw of dice "5d6" :
2 + 4 + 4 + 5 + 2 = 17
No saves so 5 wounds so far
Remaining 4 attacks at 5+
Result of the throw of dice "4d6" :
5 + 5 + 1 + 6 = 17
Lucky - 3 hits
save on 6
Result of the throw of dice "3d6" :
3 + 1 + 3 = 7
No saves, so a total of 8 wounds, wiping the unit out.
Assuming Halberdiers5 split their return attacks as before with 1 stand against each Orc unit:
3 attacks vs Orcs6
Result of the throw of dice "3d6" :
6 + 2 + 4 = 12
2 hits saved on 6
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
5 + 1 = 6
2 wounds
And 2 attacks on Orcs5 (attacks reduced by 1 because of flanking)
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
1 + 5 = 6
1 hit save on 6
Result of the throw of dice "1d6" :
6
Saved
So far we have Halberdiers5 wiped out by 8 unsaved hits, 2 hits on Orcs6, and none on Orcs5
On to Orcs5 and Halberdiers4
Orcs5 get 1 stand with 4 attacks as they have no charge bonus, and hit on 5+
Result of the throw of dice "4d6" :
5 + 5 + 1 + 6 = 17
Lucky dice rolling again by the Orcs - 3 hits saved on 6
Result of the throw of dice "3d6" :
4 + 3 + 2 = 9
3 wounds
2 attacks back due to flanking
Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :
3 + 4 = 7
1 hit save on 6
Result of the throw of dice "1d6" :
1
1 wound.
So:
Halberdiers5 wiped out by 8 hits
Orcs6 have 2 hits
Orcs5 have 1 hit
Halberdiers4 lose a stand due to 3 hits
No supporting stands, so Orcs win combat by 8 and Halberdiers4 have to retreat sideways 4cm
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv93/dode_bucket/Warmaster%20Orcs%20v%20Empire/Orcs_vs_Empire_alt_Turn_3_Orcs2.jpg)
So taking Lex's advice, Orcs6 are free to advance, and should do so before pursuits. Their target has to be the Halberdiers4, and they just advance straight forward.
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv93/dode_bucket/Warmaster%20Orcs%20v%20Empire/Orcs_vs_Empire_alt_Turn_3_Orcs3.jpg)
Orcs5 can now pursue. Only their right stand can move straight forward into contact, so that happens first. Then the other stand moves around into contact at the rear of the Halberdiers.
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv93/dode_bucket/Warmaster%20Orcs%20v%20Empire/Orcs_vs_Empire_alt_Turn_3_Orcs4.jpg)
I hope I've got it right. In the next round of combat, everyone will count as being in the open.
Orcs6 get 5 attacks per stand (4 +1 for advance), so 15 attacks at 4+
Result of the throw of dice "15d6" :
4 + 5 + 5 + 1 + 5 + 1 + 2 + 4 + 5 + 3 + 2 + 3 + 1 + 1 + 6 = 48
7 hits saved on 6
Result of the throw of dice "7d6" :
6 + 2 + 2 + 5 + 2 + 5 + 4 = 26
1 save, so the unit will be wiped out, and no need to roll for Orcs5 attacks.
As Orcs6 cannot advance again, but Orcs5 could still advance into the forthcoming combat, let's say the Halberdiers direct all 4 of their return attacks against Orcs5
Result of the throw of dice "4d6" :
1 + 2 + 1 + 5 = 9
1 hit saved on 6
Result of the throw of dice "1d6" :
2
1 wound, but not quite enough to remove a stand.
Orcs6 can fall back
Result of the throw of dice "3d6" :
6 + 4 + 1 = 11
and get of the way
Orcs5 can advance up to 10cm, and their nearest target is Halberds6. Only 1 stand can move far enough to make contact, and the other forms up behind it.
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv93/dode_bucket/Warmaster%20Orcs%20v%20Empire/Orcs_vs_Empire_alt_Turn_3_Orcs5.jpg)
Orcs8 attack crossbows. Only the end-most crossbow stand is in swamp, so no attack penalties for Orcs - 17 attacks inc Hero
Result of the throw of dice "17d6" :
2 + 2 + 2 + 5 + 4 + 6 + 6 + 6 + 5 + 1 + 2 + 2 + 1 + 4 + 4 + 1 + 2 = 55
8 hits - no saves
Orcs5 choose to attack crossbows too. Crossbows ccount as defended so 4 attacks at 5+ to hit
Result of the throw of dice "4d6" :
6 + 2 + 1 + 3 = 12
1 hit - no save, so the crossbows are wiped out
At this point I'm not sure, should the Crossbows split their attacks or concentrate on the unit in front of them?
And have i done it right so far?
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From a first glance indeed..... ! and although it makes some difference with your rolling it seems the overall effect will be the same
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Yes, the end result is likely to be similar. I think having some Empire stands hanging outside the marsh allows too many Orcs to get normal attacks and bonuses. If all the Empire stands stood at least partly in the marsh, things might well be different.
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Out of curiosity-
Why, when the knights were chewing through the orc units earlier in the game, did the Orcs split their attacks, rather than concentrating on one unit of knights in an attempt to wipe them out completely? (I'm referring to posts 45 and 46 of this thread)
I know that some attack splitting was needed (as not all orc stands touched both knight units), but Doob split his attacks differently in successive combats, which to me seems like a bad idea.
Was there a strategy behind it, and can more experienced generals give opinions on whether this kind of thing is a good idea in Warmaster?
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I was wondering. It seems like except in the case of something with a firm boundary, like a wall or building, that when an enemy is in a defended position, often the aggressor will move into a defended position partially or wholly in order to come into base-to-base contact with them. At what point do you say that a unit is defended? Must they start the phase in that position to get a benefit?
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The whole Terrain thing is an issue which can make or break the game mechanism. As things stand right now, a decent amount of terrain, using a good mix of LOS blockers, lineair pieces and non-open terrain will make for an interesting game.
Local rule here is that the footprint of the terrain is actualy slighlty bigger then the actual pieces on tha table. This is done to avoid exploitation of placement and makes it a LOT easier to define and play situations like in the game above.
In general all based scenery terain is assumed to have a "phased" boundary that extends beyond the actualy base, in such a way that when ANY portion of the stand is in contact with the scenery base, that stand is deemed to gleen all bonus/malus of the terrain.
Similarly, if any part off a stand is behind a linear obstacle then the stand is assumed to get the bonus of the terrain.
1) no more discusion if a stand is in terrain
2) more "terain" on the table, without the actual need to represent it.
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Anyone up for another 1000 Point game? Think I learned a lot from this one.