Facing and shooting

[drunkard monk]

Hello to all,

I was reading the Warmaster Rules and this question came out: is there any rules for facing ?

- Does shooters (ex; goblin archers) have to face the opponent at wich they are shooting at?

-Can a unit turn back to shoot at ennemies behind them ?


Thanks,

Drunkard Monk

[Guthwine]

1) Yes shooters like goblins (pistoliers,...) have 360° sight, so they can shoot all around.

Other units like bowmen/crossbowmen/squires have to face the enemy unit. So the enemy has be in that 180° field of view.

2) Yes you can turn around to shoot, if you succesfully order them to do so.

[Angor]

Hmmm this may be a bad interpretation on my behalf but I thought that units got a free 180 turn if they want to shoot an enemy to their rear.

I dont have my book on me so I cannot say for sure... But somewhere in the shooting section (if I recall) there is a paragraph on units get to face their rear and it happens 'automatically'. I am not laying down any definates and am happy to be told otherwise. We have always played this way and It has worked pretty well for us.

[Stomm]

Hmmm this may be a bad interpretation on my behalf but I thought that units got a free 180 turn if they want to shoot an enemy to their rear.

I dont have my book on me so I cannot say for sure... But somewhere in the shooting section (if I recall) there is a paragraph on units get to face their rear and it happens 'automatically'. I am not laying down any definates and am happy to be told otherwise. We have always played this way and It has worked pretty well for us.

That is what is in the printed rulebook, but it has been subsequently removed as it was thought to give missile troops far too much flexibility, and to an extent made 360 degree fire arcs more or less pointless...

So, you won't find the 'turn to face' rule in the current online edition...

[Angor]

Wow I wonder how many changes I have missed. I usually just read over army list changes but I will have a sit down and check out anything else thats new.


Please ignore my previous post Drunken Munk I dont pay attention to the rules 

[Stomm]

Well the x/y charge rule has effectively been replaced with a more 'standard' 45 degree flank, front and rear arcs. I've been neglecting the rules myself, so I can't (without going to read said rules) say whether this has been officially changed or not, but it certainly was a trial rule that was effectively adopted by all events at least for a very long time...


Personally I still like the x/y rule as it was something else that sets Warmaster apart from other wargames if nothing else...

[drunkard monk]

Thanks to everybody 

This brings up other questions as well

-Are the rules for Sieges and Fortrtesses, Battle Honors and Umpires and ships/boats still "usable" as they were stripped from the newest rule version ?

Drunkard Monk

[Lex]

-Are the rules for Sieges and Fortrtesses, Battle Honors and Umpires and ships/boats still "usable" as they were stripped from the newest rule version ?

Drunkard Monk

Siege - yes, but there is stuff (articles) that fix some issues in the printed rules (and a Warmuster Issue on Siege on the way)
Battle Honors - works fine and in addition there is some material around to represent Regiments of Reknow
Umpires - I would look at the latest rendition of Mighty Empires for that
Ships/boats - could use some work, but that material you can use for starters

[Stomm]

-Are the rules for Sieges and Fortrtesses, Battle Honors and Umpires and ships/boats still "usable" as they were stripped from the newest rule version ?

Drunkard Monk

Siege - yes, but there is stuff (articles) that fix some issues in the printed rules (and a Warmuster Issue on Siege on the way)
Battle Honors - works fine and in addition there is some material around to represent Regiments of Reknow
Umpires - I would look at the latest rendition of Mighty Empires for that
Ships/boats - could use some work, but that material you can use for starters

Of course I'd have to disagree, none of them 'work' as such. But there is nothing stopping you from using them none-the-less, just be aware that some of the rules might not quite work and none are balanced in any way, least of all the battle honours system. However, saying that, the siege stuff is obviously the one of these that has had the most work done on it to get it to work, and really extensive playtesting is what I'd say is needed to sort out the fine tuning. Of course I bet that lex will tell me that there has been extensive playtesting carried out, but of course my attention has been elsewhere these past few years....

[wmchaos2000]

Well the x/y charge rule has effectively been replaced with a more 'standard' 45 degree flank, front and rear arcs. I've been neglecting the rules myself, so I can't (without going to read said rules) say whether this has been officially changed or not, but it certainly was a trial rule that was effectively adopted by all events at least for a very long time...


Personally I still like the x/y rule as it was something else that sets Warmaster apart from other wargames if nothing else...

+1.
We use the X/Y approach, but it has its obvious flaws. Aswell as the front/flank/rear version.
Some years ago we tried to mix both versions to use the best parts of them, but it sort of 'poored into the sand'. (swedish expression)
Maybe now, there is some interest in getting this 'problem' fixed. Anyone else with a similar thought?

[Guthwine]

What exactly is the x/y approach?

[wmchaos2000]

It is in the charge rules in the rulebook.
If the shortest distance between Charger and Defender gives that the front of C is seeing the flank of D, it is to charge the flank.
Otherwise it is to charge the front.
Maybe not so clearly written, but hopefully you will understand. 

[Guthwine]

Ok I see, we always play it with the 45° and use the x/y in borderline situations to determine if most of the unit is within or out of the 45° angle. So its not the line of the shortest distance that matters but the angle.

[wmchaos2000]

I understand.
Whatabout situations when the side you are supposed to charge is unchargeable?
Less then 1cm frontage due to terrain or units blocking, etc.

[Guthwine]

Thats a good question. Didnt happen that often, but I would say in such situations it is not allowed to charge from their current position.

Allthough there might be situations where that would make not much sense. I think it would be ok to change the direction of the charge (despite the angle) as long as it is in favor of the defender. Meaning that a unit that would be attacking the enemies flank but cant due to terrain is allowed to go to the front but not the other way around.