Warmaster Marauder List - Invasion Bretonnia

[queveritas]

This Marauder lists is inspired by the book  Knights Errant. Its just a bit of fun and a bit different from a Norse, or regular Chaos list. So what does everyone think.


CHAOS MARAUDER ARMY

The Chaos Marauders sail all over the Old World, seeking slaves, plunder and battle. This particular list is inspired by the novel, “Knight Errant”. In it a Marauder army lands in Bretonnia with all kinds of mischief in mind. Other fantasy novels have also helped in adding flavour and the Marauder Youngblood’s comes directly from such books. These Marauder Youths wish to prove their worth in battle and so break from the shield wall, skirmishing and fighting single combats with the enemy wherever possible. Berserkers with crazed stares and frothing mouths launch at the enemy with no regard for their own safety, while war hounds sweep through the enemy ranks in support of the cavalry.  As the Marauder army disembarks, Raiders on horseback ride deep into the enemy territory causes panic and chaos. If this wasn’t enough, cranky War Mammoths, couped up on board dank and wobbling ships for too long are now free to lumber forward, goring the enemy with their huge tusks and spreading terror amongst the foe. With such forces, such reckless hate and savage abandon in war, who will be able to stand against a Marauder army?   


Troop   Type   Attack   Hits   Armour   Command   Size   Points   Min/Max   Special
Marauders   Infantry   3   3   5+   -   3   60   2/-   
Marauder Chosen   Infantry   4   3   4+   -   3   110   -/4   
Berserkers   Infantry   5   3   0   -   3   70   -/1   *1
Marauder Younths Skirmisher   4   3   0   -   1   25   -/-   *2
War hounds   Cavalry   3   3   0   -   3   40   â€˜-/2   
Marauder Raiders   Cavalry   3/1   3   6+   -   3   75   -/2   *3
Marauder Cavalry   Cavalry   3   3   5+   -   3   90   1/4   
Spawn                Monster   3/3   4   3+   -   1   110   -/2   *4
War Mammoth   Monster   8   10   5+   -   1   250   -/1   *5
Harpies                Monster   2   3   6+   -   3   65   -/1   *6
                            
Jarl   General               +2   -   -   9   1   125   1   
Hero   Hero               +1   -   -   8   1   80   -/1   
Shaman   Wizard               +1   -   -   8   1   90   -/1   
Dark Altar Special                -   -   -   -   1   +10   1    *7
War
Mammoth Monstrous Mount   +3   -   -   -   1   +80   -/1   


1.   Berserkers. Berserkers are called to seek abandon in battle and so work themselves up into a state of mindless savagery, uncaring or their own safety, so long as they can kill the enemy. Such is the eagerness to get into combat that a unit of Berserkers will always use its initiative to charge an enemy if possible and can’t be given orders instead. They’ll never use their initiative to evade. They can’t be driven back by shooting and do not roll for drive backs. If victorious in combat, they must pursue or advance where possible. Berserkers are unaffected by enemies that cause terror in combat, so they do not suffer the usual -1 Attack modifier.
2.   Marauder Youngblood’s. Marauder Youths wish to prove their worth in battle and so break from the shield wall, skirmishing and fighting single combats with the enemy wherever possible. Act exactly the same as Empire Skirmishes. May be attached to Marauders only.
3.   Marauder Raiders. Marauder raiders are lighter armed Marauder cavalry. Their tasked with pushing deep into enemy lines and causing havoc amongst the inhabitants. They carry javelins and throwing axes and have a 15cm shooting attack. They are the equivalent of a Kislevite Horse Archer. Price is 75points, like all Light Cavalry with 3 attacks, 3 hits, 6+ save and a 15cm shooting attack should be IMHO. 
4.   Spawn. Same as in the Chaos rules presently.
5.   War Mammoth.  Same as the Norse War Mammoth. See Norse list.
6.   Harpies. Same as Chaos Harpies in the Chaos list.
7.   Dark Altar.  Adds +1 to the dice when casting as spell once per game. Must be attached to a Chaos Wizard.

Chaos Magic: Use the current Chaos magic spells for a Marauder magic spell list.

[Claus]

Marauder Chosen -->are to cheap for their skills. Make it 120 or 125 points.
Marauder Younths Skirmishers --> should not have 4 basic attacks. To cheapt for 25 points and to good. Reduce to 3 attacks.
Marauders Raiders --> To cheap. Make it 80 points.

Rest looks quite O.K.

Cheers
Claus

[Carrington]

Marauder Chosen -->are to cheap for their skills. Make it 120 or 125 points.
Marauder Younths Skirmishers --> should not have 4 basic attacks. To cheapt for 25 points and to good. Reduce to 3 attacks.
Marauders Raiders --> To cheap. Make it 80 points.

Rest looks quite O.K.

Cheers
Claus

A nice list with a lot of character -- interesting because it is an bunch of familiar stat-lines mixed in an unfamiliar way.

I'd be interested to hear more about your rationales on pricing, Claus.

The skirmishers are basically the same stat-line as empire skirmishers.  Seems I've heard that empire skirmishers are regarded as overpriced.
Marauder chosen are the mirror image of Dwarf Warriors (priced at 110).  I guess it's a fair argument that dwarf infantry should be underpriced because of the lack of cavalry.

[Guthwine]

Marauder Raiders should definetly be at 90 points as thats the standart price for light shooty cavalry.

I think the Marauder Chosen are fine with 110 as they lack the 4th hitpoint that dwarves have.

The rest looks quite good to me.

[azrael71]

Has this been played at all yet?
Apart from the points issues it looks like a nice alt for chaos players who are not fans of the heavy infantry/cavalry offering we currently have

[The Dog]

My 2 pence worth
- Marauder Chosen I think they are Ok at 110

- Marauder Youths, based on Empire skirmishers they too are OK

- War Hounds, I think correctly pointed at 40 points

- Marauder Raiders, I agree with Guthwine I also think they should be 90 points, narrow frontage shooters are awesome they can even shoot all round, Kislev horse archers are under pointed. Compare your Marauder Raiders to Trial Army High Elf Reavers who are 3/1 3 6+ but shoot 30cm and NOT all around so trade the 30cm for 15cm and shoot around, so 90 points.

- War Mammoth, I assume causes Terror so is good at 80 points.

This army might suffer a little from only 2 Characters per 1000 as the average unit points are lower than the Chaos selector.  Thus, you will have more units, so more brigades than the Chaos selector, you will have to mix carefully cheap and expensive units.

Overall a good list.
.

[azrael71]

Hounds in other armies with the same stats come in at 30 points.
Whether these lists are under/over priced is not the point.
A new list needs to conform with the current standard, then the future discussion in regards points costs of units is more streamlined.

[DaveC]

Just some quick observations

I think the best save a Marauder army should have is 5+ so the chosen would be better at 4 4 5+ like Black Orcs at 110 pts.

The Skirmishers are fine as is just drop the "Youths" part.

Warhounds should as already said follow the norm and be 30 points. I could see the justification for 40pts. if you increase the max beyond 2 per 1000 pts.

The Raiders should be 80 pts as they are identical to Araby Desert Raiders and Kislev Horse Archers and they both cost 80 pts. not 75

If your basing the War mammoth on the Norse list it should be 200 pts. Its currently priced like a stegadon but with lesseer stats.

I would drop the Spawn I don't think it fits a Marauder army perhaps add some Ogres instead but you want avoid this becoming another Albion type list.

Keep the characters more in line with human armies. Make the Shaman command 7 45 pts. -/1 and then make the Hero -/2 as you need more command.

The rest looks fine to me

[Lex]

is it OK to toss in a (silly) idea about grounded longships ?

[queveritas]

Oohhh Grounded Longships sounds like a great idea!

Thanks for the replies will get back to everyone in a couple of days, once the whole Easter Holiday thing subsides. Happy and Safe Eater Holiday to everyone in the meantime. Drive Safe and stay well.

[queveritas]

Ok, I now have a bit of time to look carefully at the comments and to do a bit of reflecting on what has been said regards the lists. Firstly, thanks all for your input.

The list has never been playtested but was a inspiration one night after work. I made a few notes and typed the list up and posted it here.

The most consistent points as Azrael made is that regardless of mine or anybodies opinions of pricing a consistent price structure that spans all armies is required. I agree (just wanted to make my personal thougths known regards some of the pricing re monsters and light cavarly types) 

So changes that are a must:
1) Raiders should be 80 points just like other cavalry of similar design and function.
2) War Hounds should be 30 points.
3) War Mammoth should be 200 points.
4) Marauder Skirmishes stay the same as that is the same as Empire Skirmishes and so keeps into the structure already provided as Azrael correctly reminds us.
5) Heroes should be -/2 1000 points That was a typing mistake.

Wizards:

I am happy as either empire stats and points cost wizards or standard Chaos Wizards. What are people's thoughts.

Chosen:

Thanks to DaveC I agree that just like Black Orcs Chosen should be 110 points and 4A, 4H, 5+Sv. This should be changed under the stats.


Spawn:

I had thought about Ogres instead of Spawn, but Ogres have a habit of getting hungry on long voyages.  Since only Marauders sail, one or two may go missing, if Ogres are on board and despite the bloodthirsty nature of Chaos, I do not think that the knowledge of those Marauders that end up as supper for an Ogre would go down too well with the rest of the Marauders. Spawn on the other hand may not start as Spawn and only may become afflicted as the voyage ends or close to battle or anything where the forces and magic and power of Chaos becomes that last trigger to send a human over the edge. So I personally feel that the spawn should stay. Besides it fits into the fluff of the Books where spawn also participated in the Battles against the Bretonnians.

What is everyone's thougthts on the review.

[spiritusXmachina]

Skirmishers: Are attached to Marauders with a 5+ save. Going with the rules empire skirmishers have, the marauder skirmishers should get a 5+ save. This should definitely cost 30 points!

Hounds: It's not true that all 3/3/0 cavalry costs 30 points. If I recall correctly only Chaos Hounds have that stats. Ie Vampire Dire Wolfs only have 2/3/0 and cost 40 points. I would argue that Chaos Hounds are so cheap to balance the fact that Chaos Knights and Chaos Warriors are so expensive. With the Marauder list that's not true anymore so I would vote for the 40 pts cost (max 3/1000 would be ok then).

This list more reminds me of Stomm's Norse list...

[queveritas]

Good points SpiritusXmachina regards the warhounds and the skirmishers.

The Norse are actually a very different list considering Marauders are Norsemen! My list was inspired solely from the latest Warhammer books and from that I ttok Chosen, Youths Spawn, Raiders etc. I did go through the Norse lists after developing the Maruader list for the sake of consistency regards stats and characteristics the War Mammoth and I needed a refernce point for the chosen so originally went with the same stats as the Huscarls. Since the Chosen in the Knights Errant are basically household troops, "Huscarls". But the points for Huscarls in my mind are ridiculously cheap so I settled with 110 points. Now I think that the Black orc characteristics better suit the Chosen. Its amazing what you can glean from a fantasy novel to make a new and colourful army, completely inkeeping with the fluff and colour of the Old World.

Am happy to go back to my original pricing for the hounds and I see your point about the skirmishes - so 30points should do it? Any more thoughts by everybody? 

[Lex]

Grounded longships.

Special Rule:
maybe we should allow the longship to have some shooting attack ??  like a unit joined by a dragon ?
3 wounds, 4+safe
1/2 per 1000, points to be determined.....
When half of the longships (rounded up) are destroyed, this is considered a game-ending situation, similar to the death of the general.

Fluff:  the marauders will generaly land their longships on the coast near their intended target area, but it is not unknow that they actualy bring up their boats on the estuaries or even up river to strike into the (albion) hearthlands. As the boats are their "ticket" out after a succefull raid they will be fiercly defended and no foe will find it easy to destroy them, but actualy doing so will see the marauders resolve falter and the warbands will quickly disolve of the battlefield to find an alternative transport(location).

In game:
the Marauder player is allowed to place a 20x60 section of water on the table before deployment. This is placed:
- on his own boardedge
- with the long sidealong the edge not nearer then 20 cm of either of the sided, representing a coastal landing zone, all deployemt takes place on the edge of this zone, representing disembarking troops.
- alternativly with the short side on the table edge, and the long end projecting towards the middle of the table, representing a raid deeper inland along a river (not nearer then 50 cm to either of the sides, this water is deemed to be uncrossable).

A grounded longship is represented by a 3 stand unit of marauder infantry (The Shipguard) who will be considered fortified when deployed with at least one stand in contact with the longship (in my mind that would be a 40x40 marker with the bow of a dragonship)
If the shipguard are destroyed, then the longship can be destroyed.

[queveritas]

The Longships make for a good scenario game with a Marauder army involved. Pehaps we could use these special rules for a Marauder army scenario and call it "Longships and Iron Men"  Perhaps we could get someone to do a write up of the scenario for the next Warmuster edition!