PTF answer: Can I shoot when forced into combat on accidental contact

[Lex]

A unit with shooting capability which is contacted by an ORDERED movement OR an ADVANCE is considered charged and allowed to Stand & Shoot with all applicable stands.

Shooting units that are caught up into melee on accidental contact (as part of retreat/pursuit sequence) are not.

[insert proper page reference]

[jchaos79]

Ach mein Gott! 

I really need a revision of the rulebook. Thanks for the post

[spiritusXmachina]

I'm still missing the page reference though. I could not find any passage yet that clearly states that.

One thing is clear. Troops may shoot at charging attackers (as long as there is line of sight during the charge move). You'll find that in the shooting section of the rules.
But is there any passage that clearly states that units that come in contact accidentally by pursuing are not charging?

[Bel]

IIRC troops in accidental contact do not count as charging bkz they have no bonuses against each newly engaged units. Therefore newly engaged units can not shoot at them bkz they are not formally 'charging' enemies.

[mspaetauf]

hi!

gotta say something! 

Well, in the GW pdf it says on page 8, P32:
The term ‘charge’ describes a unit’s movement into contact with an enemy unit during the Command phase whether by initiative or by means of an order.

pursuit happens in the combat phase, and as such is no charge in the actual sense. so no S&S, charge bonus or whatever.

I think it's good to know and valid, even if it might be just a "procedure statement" 

regards,

[spiritusXmachina]

No, that's an interesting passage. That could be the needed reference. 
Thank you.

But that brings me to another question.
What about Advance Move? Is this a kind of initiative?

Is there any reference to clear that out?

If not that should be done as going with the above arguments it could be interpreted that a unit that advances into a shooting unit does not get any stand & shoot.

Greetings,
Gerald

[Lex]

Advance move is considered a Charge and gets the appropriate bonuses. It also specificly follows the charge procedure for movement and placing of stands.

As the Advance is considered a charge in that aspect, it would therefore also be ellegible for a Stand&Shoot response.

[azrael71]

So, if I have a monster pursuing infantry after a successful first round of combat, I do not get my charge bonus or my monster charging bonus only the extra dice gained for pushing the defenders back multiples of 3cms?

 
This will seriously change how we play in our club, I was taught the bonuses carry over due to the definition of charge (a unit coming into base to base contact). Looks like I may have been told wrong
It also changes the results of tournament games I have played in against more experienced players.

[Lex]

So, if I have a monster pursuing infantry after a successful first round of combat, I do not get my charge bonus or my monster charging bonus only the extra dice gained for pushing the defenders back multiples of 3cms?

Yes, very much so !!  pursuit ONLY gives you Pursuit Bonus !!

[azrael71]

D'oh!
A lot of my results are now invalid
Ah well onwards to the new brighter future of warmaster
This is where articles like this really do help sort out peoples understanding of the ACTUAL rules and not some interpretation that someone has been told.

[Lex]

must confess that I am REALY curious where THAT interpretation came from ......

[azrael71]

I learned the game a few years back off of a fellow local club member.
Other club members also played the same way.

When I have been to tournaments I have played this and never been picked up on it.
That is what you get for letting other people 'walk you through' the rules rather than studying the rules.
After a few games these bad habits begin to become 'actual' rules.

If I wasn't so busy with other projects I would lock myself away for a week to re-digest the rules 

[spiritusXmachina]

Still, if you're pursuing you get +1 attack and another +1 for every 3cm of pursuing distance (just to mention it). But of course you don't get the extra monster- or chariot attack you get at first in the open.