Charging up a hill

[BlackEd]

I'm pretty sure that the rules state that infantry on a hill count as defended when shot at or charged.

The rule for charging is that the infantry unit on the hill counts as defended if the charging unit starts from lower down.  The question is: what does it mean to start the charge from "lower down" the hill?

If the charger starts the charge move from level 0, and charges a unit on a level 1 hill, it seems clear that the infantry target is defended.  What is the charging unit starts on the hill with the infantry unit?  What if the charging unit starts from further up the hill (like from level 2)?

And this slides into LOS questions (at least in my mind).  You have to see a unit in order to charge the unit, but what if the infantry unit on the hill is on the other side of the hill  (that is, on the other side of the crest of the hill)?  If the hill is flat on top, does that affect how charges are played?

The LOS rules in Warmaster are very simple, but it is unclear in my mind if the rules apply just to Artillery or whether they also apply to units moving.

How is everyone else doing LOS in Warmaster?

Thanks,

Ed (BlackEd)

[spiritusXmachina]

We play that infantry units count as defended if the charging unit is placed lower down after the charge movement. It does not matter from where the charge began.

We also play that units have sight up to 2cm behind the edge of hills (a bit like woods). But we mostly either have stepped hills or the edges are easily identifyable. Playing on realistic hills I would not know how to deal with that.

Greetings,
Gerald

[jchaos79]

we treat the hills as being "semi spherical" so if the infantry unit is back from the middle of the hill then the cavalry in the front has no LOS. So, the cavlary need two orders one to situate in the middle of the hill (the higher point of the semi spherical hill) and see the infantry, and the other to charge. If the cavlary do this then... the infantry is no more on defended position, because the cavalry starts its charge on a higher level.

[Getlord]

Hi,

You would not like me again but I have some doubts. It is always good to start such discussion with a quota. The rules are as below:
"A stand is also defended if it is positioned
on the crest or upper slope of a hill or rise so that it
occupies higher ground than its attackers."
And therefore I wouldn't agree with initial intepretation being assumption for this discussion. It does not matter where you start the charge but in what exactly position you will finish.

In fact it is the general rule not only for charging in Warmaster if you know what I mean 

If come to the conclusion what the rules really are then we can try to pose the question once again. How about such scenario?
Get

[Haranin]

The best solution is warmaster scale hills, such that it is clear who is higher while allowing stands to grip the hill good enough so that they don't slide.

Some hills, like the standard GW ones, suck for WM. While clear on height; stands can't stick well.

Stepped or flat hills can make it clear what level a unit is on or clarify multihill situations; but can result in confusion if the "steps" or flat spots are not granular enough.

In a game, before deployment I highly reconmend discussing the terrain features and there effects with your opponent. Debating it in the heat of the game, when the different viewpoints have real consequences is not ideal. For FOW, locally we mandate that a table has to have a sheet of instructions clarifying the terrain types (ie stream fordable by infantry, but not tanks. Ice can support tanks under 20 tons, 20-60 tons roll for it, but tanks over 60 break trough automatically.)

[BlackEd]

I am annoyed by stands that slide downhill also.  I found a solution.

All my Warmaster stands have magnets on the bottom.  On the steeper hills, I painted the hill slopes with a special paint that has iron filings in it.  Two coats of the paint, then paint the desired color on the top layer.  Stands no longer slide downhill!

I also noticed that hills with Woodland Scenics flocking on the slopes also prevent stands from sliding downhill.

It is good to know there is more than one interpretation.  I don't feel so ignorant!

[Stomm]

The relative position of the stands after contact is made is what matters. You can quite easily have a situation where a stand attacking different enemy stands from the same unit would be attacking stands that are in the open or defended depending upon whether they are higher, lower or at the same level as them.

Incidentally Warmaster terrain does not operate on a 'levels' basis, it is not stepped as was classically the case with Warhammer and 40K terrain 'back in the day'. Nice gentle realistically contoured hills are really want you want to look for or to create, and one possible answer to skiing stands may be to paint latex on the underside of your stands. I have yet to try this out yet though...

[wmchaos2000]

Some more "defended" questions.

1. If an unit on a sloop (facing downhill) is charged in the front, it claims defended. If the same unit then is charged in the flank and the flankcharger is contacting an already engaged (and defended) stand, is that stand defended against the flanker? (flankcharger also downhill from defender)

2. If it is not defended against flanker, does that individual stand loose its defended position against the charger to the front aswell?

This happend during last battle and we ruled it so that they lost defended to their flank but kept it to their front. BUT we couldnt find anything about this in the Rulebook, Errata or Q&A.


And a magic question.

3. Those spells that affect an area, (within 30cm from the wizard) only affects those units within that limit during the spells duration, stated in Q&A (AngerOfTheGods, LightOfBattle, DaemonicRage?). But units affected by spells that only can be cast on units within 30cm and then lasts during the following combat phase (DaemonicRage?, FrenzyOfChaos, RageOfChaos), does those units lose the spells effect if they during pursue/retreat end up outside 30cm from the wizard in the following combat phase?


Sorry for my poor english, hope it is not "fogging" they questions.

[Guthwine]

1. The unit on the hill counts as defended, even for the flank charger.
If the attackers come from a lower level, then the defender always counts as defended.

3. Yes if the unit leaves the area of effect the spell then its no longer affected.

[Claus]

Your question 3.

Spells that cover and area...."within 30cm of the caster" only affect units within range...in other words....should they pursue or retreat and come out of the 30cm area range then the spell has no more effect.

Spells that can only be cast on a unit within a certain range will not lose their effect no matter if the unit is leaving the castin range for whatever purpose. The spell were succesfully casted on the unit. The range does not matter anymore afterwards.

Regards
Claus

[wmchaos2000]

Thanks. That clarifys it all.

[spiritusXmachina]

1. The unit on the hill counts as defended, even for the flank charger.
If the attackers come from a lower level, then the defender always counts as defended.

It is not important from where the charge came from (see above in the thread) it's important where the charging stand is placed. So judge every single charging stand - is it lower than the enemy stand the enemy stand counts as defended. If not the charge counts as in the open.

[Lex]

1. The unit on the hill counts as defended, even for the flank charger.
If the attackers come from a lower level, then the defender always counts as defended.

It is not important from where the charge came from (see above in the thread) it's important where the charging stand is placed. So judge every single charging stand -

ANY part of it

is it lower than the enemy stand the enemy stand counts as defended. If not the charge counts as in the open.