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Author Topic: Araby - Elephants "Stampede" question linked to "MIRAGE"unit  (Read 2707 times)

Offline Claus

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Araby - Elephants "Stampede" question linked to "MIRAGE"unit
« on: December 31, 2010, 10:26:42 AM »
Hello Gents.

New and nice ARABY question that did not happen to me so far but when thinking about Araby tactics and possibilities this scenario came into my mind.

As per definition we have to take into account following:

MIRAGE:
The sorcerer creates the illusion of a huge host of fearsome
warriors, bearing down inexorably upon his startled foes.

To use this spell the player will need an additional unit chosen
from the Araby list - this can be infantry, cavalry or monsters it
does not matter which. This unit becomes the 'illusion' and is
immediately placed within 60cm of the sorcerer and more than
20cm from any enemy units. The illusionary unit cannot move or
fight - for it isn't really there! However, the illusionary unit is
treated as if it were real by the enemy up until such time as an
enemy unit charges into contact with it, touches it as an
incidental contact during combat, advances upon it, or brings it
into combat in any other fashion. This means, for example,
Command penalties are suffered for proximity, and enemy
shooters are obliged to target the illusion if it is the closest target
- it cannot be harmed of course! The illusionary unit is also
dispelled immediately if the Araby player moves any of his units
or characters through it.

STAMPEDE:
1. Stampeding Elephants cannot be given orders or use
initiative. Instead roll a dice at the start of the Command phase
before moving anything else on initiative, and move the unit as
follows...

Reactions....described below with my questions !!


...'enemies' for the duration of the combat and therefore
continue to cause 'terror' in opponents regardless of which
side they are on. The Elephants count as charging in the first
round. If the Elephants win a combat round then they must
pursue if possible and will continue to do so each round.
Should their opponents be destroyed they will not advance but
will halt without reforming.

3. Stampeding Elephants might conceivably move into a unit,
therefore initiating combat, but are unable to form a battle-line
because they have insufficient movement distance. In the case
of stampeding elephants, the combat is still fought, and the
elephants still count as charging. It is up to the player whether
he moves the elephants the extra distance required to make a
battle-line or simply fights with the elephants in an irregular
formation.


Arab Elephant unit stampedes (due to shooting, magic...whatever)

The question arises on following Stamped actions:

1-2. Move towards the nearest enemy unit as far as
possible – if the stampeding elephants contact the
enemy they automatically count as charging even if they
couldn't see at the start of the move. If the elephant
contacts a friendly unit it counts as moving into friends
(see below).

Situation:
Elephants could reach enemy unit that is within movement distance but before they would also walk into/through a "MIRAGE" unit that were casted by a wizzard.

Question:
Do they charge the MIRAGE unit and stop there as the unit disappears ?
Do they know it´s only a MIRAGE unit  or let´s say do they simply walk through it (as it disappears) and charge the enemy unit ?
(I would favour 2nd scenario as "Stampede" is no coordinate move ...it´s a reaction ...but who knows)


3-4. Move directly away from the nearest enemy unit as
far as possible – work out the stampede direction in the
same way as you would for an evade move. If the
elephant contacts another enemy unit it counts as
charging (see above). If the elephant contacts a friendly
unit it counts as moving into friends (see below).

Situation:
A MIRAGE unit is in the way.

Question:
Do the Elephants charge it and stop there ?
Do they walk through it till they reached their maxium movement distance allowing them to charge into another unit (friend or foe) ?


5. Move towards the nearest friendly unit as far as
possible – if the stampeding elephants contact the
friendly unit they automatically count as charging even
if they couldn't see at the start of the move.

Situation:
Nearest friendly unit is a MIRAGE unit.

Question:
Do the MIRAGE unit count in this situation as being the one nearest to be charged ?


6. Move directly away from the nearest friendly unit as
far as possible - work out the stampede direction in the
same way as you would for an evade move. If the
elephant contacts an enemy or friendly unit it counts as
charging (see above).

Situation:
Nearest friendly unit is a MIRAGE unit.

Question:
Do the Elephants move away from the MIRAGE unit ?




My interpretation is the following one.

Interpretation A:
Stampede is a reaction of the elephants due to another event. It´s no coordinated move or command. Thus given the riders don´t have control about the elephants.
Given this I would treat MIRAGE unit as a standard unit on the battlefield in terms of Stampeding elephants meaning that Elephants walk into them coutn as charging ... unit disappears....Elephants halt there.

Interpretation B:
Another alternative treatement could be that in term of direction determination for "nearest unit" the MIRAGE unit can be taken but also that stampeding Elephants would simply walk through them as the MIRAGE unit disappears when being touched by friend or foe and stampeding elephant unit will only halt till it has reached maximum movement or another "not" disappearing unit that they have to fight.
(Actually I favour this one as it makes most sense and in my opinion it would also be the most logical one)


O.K.
Now it´s your turn
What´s your opinion interpretation on this topic ?

Cheers and "Happpy New Year" (in case you read this tomorrow)
Claus
« Last Edit: December 31, 2010, 10:38:41 AM by Claus »

Offline Lex

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Re: Araby - Elephants "Stampede" question linked to "MIRAGE"unit
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2010, 11:01:07 AM »
The MIRAGE unit is visual both for enemy and friendly units, but friendly units would identify it as mirage, a stampeding Elefant "sees"  the unit and would treat it as such UNTILit came into contact, at which time it would disappear (and probably add to the confusion of the already berseking Elefant......)

Offline Guthwine

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Re: Araby - Elephants "Stampede" question linked to "MIRAGE"unit
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2010, 04:41:11 PM »
Araby units can shoot and charge through the mirage and always treat it as a fake unit while it counts as a standard unit for enemies at all times.

So I think the elefants should charge through the mirage into a real unit as the elefants get it that the mirage is just an illusion in the air.
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Offline spiritusXmachina

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Re: Araby - Elephants "Stampede" question linked to "MIRAGE"unit
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2011, 09:45:30 AM »
The core imo is this: "...the illusionary unit is treated as if it were real by the enemy..."
So I would go on from this to say that the unit is always treated as illusionary by friendly units.

So I would think the elephants would ignore the Mirage unit whatever happens (as even a freaked out elephant still counts as a friendly unit). This would mean for me that the elephants always would choose other real units. But I would also interpret that the elephants would move straight through the Mirage unit to reach/or flee from another unit.

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Offline wellspring

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Re: Araby - Elephants "Stampede" question linked to "MIRAGE"unit
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2011, 04:15:31 PM »
I agree as well.

The elephant can clearly distinguish between friendly and enemy units prior to combat, and friendly units 'know' that the mirage is an illusion-- so when stampeding the mirage is ignored for target selection purposes. The only time that the elephant could possibly treat a friendly mirage as an enemy is AFTER it charged the mirage-- which the stampede table doesn't permit as an option (during the charge the mirage is neither friendly nor enemy).

If, in moving towards real enemies or friends, the stampeding elephants pass through the mirage, then the mirage disappears just as if any friendly was moving through it.

(I do have to say I'm sympathetic to the idea of using a mirage to manage the risk of a stampede, but the rules as currently written are very clear on this point and it simply doesn't work.)

Offline Carrington

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Re: Araby - Elephants "Stampede" question linked to "MIRAGE"unit
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2011, 04:32:10 PM »
Of course per Murphy's laws of warfare ("Friendly fire.... isn't")

there's a question whether a stampeding elephant is 'friendly.'

But I suppose such metaphysical questions should be banned from rules discussions.