Athel Loren - Bretonnian Border Patrol Warband

[StyrofoamKing]

In that sense, the Bowmen DO have their place and bonuses, even if they don't get a path.  They can have the same HSs & DPs as the Knights, but may use the bows and 'woodsy' magical items/artefacts that the Elves can use.

[StyrofoamKing]

New Idea:  What if, instead of Men-at-Arms, the Chapel Guard could recruit Battle Pilgrims?  If the Chapel houses a Grail Knight, it would make sense that a group of the peasants would congregate around it, eager to defend it and the outlying area.  Here's what I'm thinking:

0+ Battle Pilgrims - X gc
Battle Pilgrims are zealous peasants that will guard the remains of a dead Grail Knight, and keep vigil over any chapel that houses it.  If the chapel is secured by a heavy watch, small numbers of the pilgrims will allow themselves to follow a Questing Knight in his journeys, as he secures the forests and glen around the gravesite.
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4  2  2 3 3 1 3 1 8
Equipment: May use any items from the Pilgrims Equipment list.
Special Rules:
Low Caste: Battle Pilgrims are peasants, and while they are not stupid, there is a glass ceiling to what they can attain in Bretonnian society.  Low Caste henchmen learn experience and advance as normal, but reroll any results of ‘That Lad’s Got Talent’, and may never become heroes.
Hatred: Battle Pilgrims suffer Hatred against all of their enemies, seeing them as enemies and heretics to the true Lady’s cause.

So here are the three options:
a. Leave them as is, and charge 25gc.
b. Add 'Stubborn' (immune to all Alone?) and charge 30gc.
c. Make them crazed (pass all Psych tests) and charge 35 gc. If so, we'd make them 0-5 rather than allow 0+, but that would mean making the Squires 0+ instead of 0-5.

[ANSWER_MOD_DABANK]

add hatred, increase the cost and limit the number of them.

[Master]

(I'm back)

Well, If they have no missile weapons (no and not slings the knight wont allow it) I don't think their cost is totally screwed at 25 gc with hatred, I'd like to keep them at that as that makes them rather special though.

Pilgrim equipment list have to be almost only Clubs, axes, Shields and light armour though as I can't see these guys running round with spears or swords.

[StyrofoamKing]

DaBank: At the moment, I have them with hatred already, and are charging 25gc.  The way I see it, WS2 & BS 2 + the Hatred & Ld8 = about 25gc.  Or am I misreading you, and you suggest adding 'Stubborn'?

Master: First off, glad to see you back!

Second, all of the GM pics I found in my brief internet search, most of the Pilgrims are armed with swords and shields.  I agree with the 'no missiles' & 'no spears' (no halberds too?), but swords and short shorts makes sense.  The kite shields are okay too, right? (give them that cheap 5+ save! Ah, refreshing!)

I'll try to repost the current prototype when I get a chance.

Edit:
While I'm on the subject of the warband, I'd love to get an opinion on the Shield Bash skill. Most of the bret skills so far are not too great, so I thought we should take a second look at 'Shield Bash'

Shield Bash - When charging, the Knight may make an additional attack with a shield or kite shield.  Treat the shield attack as a club.

At the moment, it's about equal with 'unstoppable charge.'  Should it be improved to 'in the first round of combat', or, to make it REALLY good, grants the +1 attack bonus at all times?  The latter is better than, say, 'Combat Master', but hardly the strongest skill ever, and definitely promotes the use of shields, which is a personal goal with this warband.

[Master]

Shield Bash: I do think it could give +1 attack all rounds, if it just counted as a club or something like that, I think it is a little worse than shaggy hide or well 'ard then (the orc and beastmen special skills giving +1 armour save).

Pilgrims: Ok, swords are in, so are short swords, kite shields seem a good idea. To me 25gc sounds about right if htey don't have any missile weapons or chance of becoming heroes. Compare them to, say, goblins.

[StyrofoamKing]

A nice comparison (and afterwards, I thought of 'tail fighting', which is another skill that grants a straight up +1 attack).  In that case, it'll grant an extra shield attack, and the Brets finally have a skill worth taking.

I'll update soon.

[ANSWER_MOD_DABANK]

I will find my old bretonnian warband I was working on. It still needs some work but I think I figured the battle pilgrims out.

Maybe you can get a few ideas for this one. If not, then you will see what not to do. LOL.

[StyrofoamKing]

We'd love to see it, DaBank.

[ANSWER_MOD_DABANK]

From 2004. I don't think I look at them again since 2005.

Check out the link and the llink is only good for 2 weeks.

http://www.adrive.com/public/5826a7292474254b725d7191f5c245b8102f2c087906f0bb1a0d03fab3249921.html

[StyrofoamKing]

Awesome. So, to repeat for Master's sake, you have them at 35 gc, hatred, and Stubborn = reroll failed Ld tests.  I like.  Although, I like them better at 0-5, and will give them a standard HtH equipment list (as there are no real Men at Arms in this warband).

Personally, I don't know why both you and the official Bret warband put Knights Errant at 50gc.  (Yours is slightly better, in that you give them WS4 instead of WS3.)  'Immune to All Alone' is barely a 5gc bonus, yet there's a 15-25gc difference between them and Heroes of the same stat line.

Also, I like the idea of a Spellcaster defending them, rather than a 'kneel and pray' protection plan.  More of a fluff thing, really.

[Master]

I agree with Styro, pilgrims will be a nice elite choice at 35gc.

Also, I can't figure out why knight errants should be 50gc either, they are the same as regular champions, with no missile weapons but immunity to all alone instead, well I'd prefer the regular champion then.

I've grown to like the damsel too.

[ANSWER_MOD_DABANK]

Just take the Knights down from 50 but keep in mind they get the ride skill and etc already built into them.

On the Pilgrims I would stay away from saying anything about grail knights as that is who they usually follow basically this bunch I had listed were supposed to be a bunch of "wanna" Knights who were fanatical and hanging on the fringes of the elites.

[StyrofoamKing]

Well, I've read both your bret band and the original, and I can't find any reference to the  'ride' skill. In this version, the Questing Knight starts with 'Ride Warhorse', but at the moment, he's the only one.

Grail Pilgrims:  DaBank, I'm having trouble following you. To me, if it is a 'Chapel Guard' warband, I don't see why they wouldn't guard a chapel with a Grail Knight interred there.  Although, I don't know the new Brets all that well as you seem to, so I may defer to you on the fluff.

[ANSWER_MOD_DABANK]

In Bretonnia fluff, battle pilgrims follow Grail Knights. All I am saying is don't mention anything about  grail knights and mention something about them (BP) are a bunch of wannabe ramble who follow around any Knight they can. That is why I put the battle pilgrims the way I did and DID NOT mention anything about grail knights.

I am correct, there are no grail knights in this warband?


Ride skills is assumed.