Athel Loren Campaign: Wood Elves

[Master]

Ok so this is what we got to last I checked:

Max Warband size: 12
Starting gold: 500

Warrior equipment list:
Close combat (prices are normal unless listed):
Dagger
Staff
Sword
Spear
Double-handed weapon
Double Spear 20gc (25gc?)
Missile Weapon:
Javelins
Bow*
Longbow*
Armour:
Shield
Buckler
Light armour
Helmet
Misc:
Tattoos 15gc
Warpaint 15gc
*=Heroes only.

Ranger equipment list:
Close combat (prices are normal unless listed):
Dagger
Staff
Sword
Spear
Missile Weapon:
Javelins
Bow
Longbow
Elf Bow 30gc
Armour:
Buckler
Light armour
Helmet

Kindred:
May only be purchased on initial purchase of a hero, Any henchmen that advances to hero may forfeit his first advance to purchase a kindred:
Wardancers: Gain +1 WS, Access to Wardancer skills, and immune to psych. May not wear armor, use missiles, or ride. Cost 15gc.

Child of Kurnous: Starts with S4. May access any Strength skill except Resilient. Loses Shooting skills, and may not use any missile weapon that is not thrown. Cost 20gc.

Alter: Starts with +1 Movement. Is immune to all alone tests, any friendly animals within 6" may use the Alters leadership. 10gc

Scout: Uses ranger equipment list, You gain +1 or -1 to an exploration dice each post game. You may only have one Scout in your warband at a time. 15gc.

Waywatcher: Starts with +1 BS, and access to the Ranger Equipment list instead of the Warrior list. Access to Infiltrate and waywatcher special skills. May only have 1 waywatcher in your warband at a time. 25gc

Eternal Guard:
This warrior is an eternal guard, he has vowed to protect the forest against any harm, therefore he is obliged to use a bow given to him by a dryad, he may not purchase any bow in his first game, and in any game thereafter he may search for it as a rare 10 item (except for elven bows which are still rare 12), he may not use a bow from another warrior in the warband.
He may purchase and wear heavy armour for 50gc.
In addition he has the bodyguard special rule:
Whenever an enemy model declares a charge at a model with 4" of the Guard, (and the Guard is not engaged in combat, knocked down or stunned), the Guard may make an immediate 2" move in any direction, which takes place before the charge is implemented. This may only be used if it allows the Guard to intercept the charge (which he/she must do), and only once per movement phase.
15gc

Glamourweaver: This a an Honour that may be taken by your Spellsinger. Whenever learning a new spell (including his default spell), roll two dice, and pick whichever of the two results you wanted. Whenever this warrior advances he may roll a D6, if he rolls 4+ he may learn a skill instead of rolling for advancement. 25gc

DOUBLE HEADED SPEAR
20gc, rare 5, Wood Elves Only
Range: Close, Strength: Users, Special: Two Handed, Strike First, Backswing
Two-Handed: The Spear is a two handed item, and may not be used with a buckler, shield, or additional hand weapon. A model armed with a shield may still receive a save in the Shooting Phase.
Strike First: In the first round of combat, the user may make attacks equal to his Attack characteristic that strike first, before the normal initiative order. If the spear-wielding model is charged, then the order of attack is based on Initiative.
Backswing: The Double-Headed Spear grants an additional attack, that does NOT gain the 'Strike First' ability, but attacks during the normal attack order. It has no bonus or penalty, and counts as a 'bladed' weapon when dealing with Critical Hit Charts.

TATTOOS - 15gc, Rare 5 - Wood Elves, Slayers, Beastmen, Savage Orcs, & Forest Goblins Only
Ward Save: To each wound the user suffers, he receives a 6+ Ward save that is never modified or negated.
Not Armor: Tattoos are never increased with the use of armor, and may not be used with armor (excluding bucklers and helmets.) If the player decides to put armor on a Tattooed model at the start of the game, the tattoos will have no effect this game. If the opponent is attacking with a blow that grants an armor save, (i.e. daggers), the Tattooed model receives a Tattoo save OR the armor save (the defending player's choice.) Likewise, tattoos may be worn/used by models that are not allowed armor (such as Slayers or Wardancers.)
Permanent: Once worn, the tattoos are permanent, and may not be sold, traded, stolen, or lost.

Warpaint - Rare 5, 15+2d6gc
Warpaint is a one-time use item that may be worn at the beginning of any battle. The hero causes fear, and is immune to fear. It may not be worn by models that are wearing armor (helmets, bucklers, and tattoos excluded.)

SPECIAL SKILLS
Infiltrate - Same as Skaven, may only be taken by three heroes.
Fey Quickness - +1 to Dodge or Step Aside, provides 6+ on it's own.
Woodland Avengers - Hates all Orcs, Goblins, Beastmen, and Dark Elf warbands (and any Hired Swords with them.)
Potions Master - May make 1D3-1 Healing Herbs each game. May not be sold, and any not used are discarded after the game.
Hunter's Instinct - May target any enemy model, not just closest.

WARDANCER SKILLS:
Powerful Build - May learn Strength skills.
Whirling Death - Same as 'Wrath of Khaine' Skill from Lustria Dark Elves.[/size]

Waywatcher skills:
Strong Pull: This skill may not be combined with quick shot, if the warrior is S4 or more (either base, or through some sort of blessing or drug), any bow he fires are at +1S.

Trapmaster: This skill may only be taken by a waywatcher with the infiltration skill.
This warrior has infiltrated the territory and set-up a number of nasty traps, place D3 trap counters anywhere on the table (coins will do fine), they must be at least 4" apart, any warrior, that is not a waywatcher moving within 2" of a trap must pass an initative test, if failed he suffers a S4 hit.
If it is available the waywathcer may poison his traps in black lotus or dark venom (one dose for all traps and not both), dark venom adds +1S to the hit, while black lotus adds +1 to the injury roll, if it wounds.

1 Warden - Leader. - about 75gc
Normal (perhaps a bit better) elf stats,
M5 WS5, BS 4, S3, T3, W1, I5, A1, LD9
Warrior equipment list.
Combat, Shooting, Academic, Speed, Special skills.

0-1 Spellsinger: 45-55gc
Sub-par elf stats, having focused more on spells.
M5 WS3, BS3, S3, T3, W1, I4, A1, LD8
Warrior equipment list.
Can only take the glamourweave kindred.
Academic, speed & special.

0-2 Glade champions: 40-50gc
M5 WS4, BS4, S3, T3, W1, I5, A1, LD8
Warrior equipment list.
With the kindreds they can be fairly good at anything you want them to do, the scout would be the weakest, but then again, he would have a tremendous effect on your post-game income.
Combat, Shooting, Speed, Special.

Henchmen:
0-5 Shooty elves (name pending): 40gc
M5 WS3, BS4, S3, T3, W1, I4, A1, LD8
Ranger equipment list.

Elven warriors: 40gc
M5 WS4, BS4, S3, T3, W1, I4, A1, LD8
Warrior equipment list

Wolves: 20gc
M7 WS4, BS3, S3, T3, W1, I4, A1, LD8
Animals

Elven trainees: 30gc
M5 WS3, BS3, S3, T3, W1, I4, A1, LD8
Warrior equipment list.

[Master]

I'm not sure whether the war dancers are good enough? They might be a little weak kindred, even though their special skills are awesome. Perhaps they should get the fey quickness skill for free?

[StyrofoamKing]

Hmm. Well, if the Wardancers seem weak, the question we have to ask ourselves is whether the rest of them are too strong and/or too cheap.  Not sure. Or maybe charge only 10gc for the Wardancers?

Champions:  We put them at 50gc, I think, given that they have BS4.

Kindred: We don't have to, but I liked the idea of the Alter not being a viable Kindred, and that the only way to get one was a Hired Sword. Although, it would promote usage of the Wolves, which is good.

Wolves: I think the Norse did them pretty well, so no need to reinvent them. 

0-5 Wolves 15gc each
M9 ws3 bs0 s3 t3 w1 i3 a1 ld5

Infiltrate: I was originally thinking it would be a Waywatcher skill (or a Scout/Waywatcher), but I think limiting it to 3 works fine. I like the image of a wild fighters like a Wardancer or a Kunos lying in wait, spear poised.

Trainees: Lower the Ld to 7, and make them cost 25gc. True, they're still better than Humans for the same cost, but I don't think it makes Beardlings too unbalanced. If it seems too unfair, limit them to 0-5, and the unlimited henchmen group will be the Warriors.

Trapmaster:  I saw a friend do an interesting version of the Trapmaster, which I thought was clever. Here's roughly how it worked:

TRAPMASTER: Anytime that charges are declared at a Waywatcher with the Trapmaster skill (note: does not include charges the Waywatcher intercepts), roll 1D6:  on a roll of 1, the Charger suffers a S3 hit before moving. This represents the charger stumbling into a trap laid beforehand by the Waywatcher.

Of course, we could make it harsher (a roll of 1 or 2), milder (the trap only halves their movement, possibly making them fail the charge), whatever.  But might be easier than laying tokens on the board.

If we go with the counter idea, we have to add 'Must be 6" from an enemy's deployment zone, and 3" from any enemy model when placing it," and as well as, "Once sprung, remove the trap from the board."

OR, we can go with the Bergjaeger rules from the Averlanders.  Roughly like this:

SET TRAPS: May spend a turn laying traps (if not knocked down).  Any model who goes within 2" sets it off on a roll of 3+, suffering a S4 blow.  If not injured, may continue move, otherwise stays in the spot.  Once triggered or not, the trap is removed.

[Master]

Perhaps instead of the alter kindred we call it the beastmaster kindred?

Norse wolves are fine by me but are pretty fast compared to the poor beastmaster trying to keep up.

I like both versions you are suggesting for traps, except that the bergjaeger one is kindda stupid, it really makes you want to put a way watcher in a position, setting up traps when he can't see anything, and simply stand there waving his bow, being hidden, no one being able to charge him because they will run into something like 3 or 4 traps, thereby stopping 2" away, probably knocked down or worse and an easy kill for the waywatcher. BergJaegers are really really good because of this ability.

I actually like the one you proposed first the best, any warrior charging the waywatcher suffers a S3 hit on a roll of 4+ (compared to lightning reflexes I don't think this is too much), it might be 3 time the chance you proposed but it is still not that good.

Trainees: I like them unlimited, 25gc might be a good idea, but personally I think beardlings are pretty over the top. Trainees on 25 gold might be fair enough though, compared to verminkin with better equipment at 20gc. But when you start comparing to skaven you are a little over the top IMO.

I thought that after looking over an old skaven warband again, where I realised that mainly close combat heroes had infiltration, I realised that infiltration is equally useful for ranged and close combat heroes, and also fits nicely with an ambush theme.

[StyrofoamKing]

Alter:  Let's do the other way around.  We'll call them Alter kindred, and the HS is a Alter Beastmaster, implying that he's even better still.

Norse: True, but if we're trying to promote a H-t-H warband over shooty, a super fast wolf vanguard seems the surest way.  Besides, when the Alter learns 'Sprint', it'll be moving 18" each turn... 19-22" with leap.

Waywatcher:  Hmm. Let's go with 5+, so it'll be as reliable (but a little stronger) than a Dodge or Step Aside roll.  Speaking of which, if a person sets a trap, should they be able to dodge or 'step aside' it? Which is more appropriate?

Trainees: okay, unlimited 25 it is.  Again, they have a max of 12 warriors, then 11 Trainees aren't going to overpower 14 humans.

Infiltration: Good to me. It's in.

[Master]

You are correct on the trainees.

Waywatcher, I agree with 5+, dodge would be most appropriate, I think we should keep the option to poison traps.

The alter will be moving 19-24" with leap, and thereby going at the same speed as his wolves, I like it that way, and you are correct.

[StyrofoamKing]

Oooh, new Wardancer Skill:

Duck & Weave: If the Wardancer is charged will he is unengaged, he may move 2" directly away from the charger (suffering movement penalties as normal.)  By making this move, it is possible for the Wardancer to step out of the charger's maximum charge range, causing the charge to fail.  If the Wardancer moves past the attacker's range of vision, he is still considered 'visible' and 'detected' for this charge, and may be charged as normal.  This skill may only be used once per turn.

Why I phrased as such: if it was not 'directly' away from the attacker, you get into odd situations, such as a new range of interceptors... if it stays a straight line, it makes things easier. Also, I made it Wardancer only, because 1. if a shooter had this skill, it could get abused too much, 2. the wardancers have only 2 skills at the moment... at least three seems fair.

while on the subject, how's this for the revised Potion's Master:
Potions Master: if the hero was not taken out of action this game, roll 1D3-1 (ranging from 0 to 2): that is the number of Injury rolls that you may reroll this post-game for your warband (for heroes, henchmen, hired swords, or dramactic personae.) You may only use one Potion skill each post game, even if a Potion Master made 0 potions. Potions may not be stockpiled, and if not used this postgame, they are discarded.

[ANSWER_MOD_DABANK]

Potion Master: Or allow that with having a potion master it allows only one reroll on the serious injury table per game, no matter what.
You might want to note: You can never reroll a reroll otherwise someone will try it.

[StyrofoamKing]

Well, I like how the 1D3-1 equals uncertainty, but you're right. Best make it a simple 1 per post game. And good call on the 'may not be rerolled'.  I stupidly made the assumption that if it's been printed 500 times with other items and skills, that everyone wouldn't need it repeated 501. How naive.

As they always said in math class, "when you make assumptions, you make an 'ASS' out of 'U' and" ... uh...

...'mption.' 

The 'Duck & Weave' skill look good to you, dabank? You've answered enough 'viable charge' & 'intercept' questions in your time to know if I overlooked a huge flaw.

[Master]

I like the duck & weave skill, however what happens if you decide to jump over the edge of a building? Will the charger have to follow? Will it be a diving charge?

I like the potion master with re-roll once on the serious injury table, nice and simple.

[Master]

Ok, so I'm using some thread-a-mancy, and reviving this thread because we talked about how we wanted to finish these guys off.

I will update the first post to include our errata shortly (So I'm sure to get it all when copying it to PDF).

We still need to set the costs for the hero elves? What do you guys think it should be?

I also think this warband could need some polish, as it is now I don't really get the feel of a wood elf warband, it might be because I don't have any wood elf figurines to look at and think, oh this is a cool model, but I'm not sure.

I think the wardancer could be a very mobile and cool character with both whirling death and duck & weave, I'll take two please, and so I want to do a close combat wood elf warband, which means I'm kindda biased to making the wood elves more focused on close combat tricks.

[StyrofoamKing]

Shooty vs. Non-shooty:  Well, I think that we can't FORBID them from being a shooty warband, we've done a decent job of both limiting the shooting bonus to a few models at a time, as well as strong hth alternatives to shooters.  Worst comes to worst, we've restricted them from all S4 weapons, so the most they can do is pelt S3 arrows at people.

From the Boring Forum:  I forgot the potential Wardancer Skill, 'Deadly Coil' - learns Step Aside & Dodge together.  Might be too strong, but would definitely make the Wardancers a hard group to kill.

So, do we want to remove the restriction on Infiltration, if it works well with the skaven?

[Master]

Maybe deadly coil should be more like the fey quickness? So it gives 6+ save in each area and combined with step aside or dodge the wardancer improves this save to a 4+ save in the respective area.
This way they wouldn't have a single skill that is plainly better, but after 2-3 skills they will be quite hard to knock out as they shrug off half the blows.

Infiltration, well I'm not sure, I think I voted for the restriciton to prevent 6 heroes set up in a building and just pepper someone with arrows through the whole game. But as most of the heroes are CC focused anyway, it probably wont matter that much.

Ok, you convinced me on shooty vs non-shooty.

[StyrofoamKing]

Fey Quickness:  well, that is already an elf skill, available to all heroes. Meh, I'll lay off of the joint 'Step Aside / dodge' skill for the wardancer, and make them take them separate like everyone else.

Infiltration:  It's true, they definitely have that potential.  (Besides, we never FORCED the player NOT to make a squad of 6 shooter heroes... he just made them jump through a lot of hoops.)  However, given the fact that the skaven & dark elf warband can do this already, would it highly unbalance them?

[Master]

True about the fey quickness, I didn't see that.

Well basically I like the idea of the wardancers combining these skills, however I'm not sure whether giving them a two for one skill choice might make them a little good? They have no acces to armour or missile weapons so it could be ok though.