Blunders question.

[pw]

Hi, I've played exactly one game of Warmaster and have many many questions. Most I'm keeping in my head for a secnd reread of the rulebook but this one I've checked for and not found. Do you roll on the blunder table only on unmodified rolls of 12 (ie a double six) or does it come into play on modified rolls?

I have to say it turned out to be good fun despite being only 1000 pts a side with my Lizards stealing the win purely because I realised that charging first was the way to win and because my opponent deployed a few of his units behind each other  (but not touching) allowing me to steamroller through them. Happily for both of us this isn't a mistake that'll crop up in the next game so actual tactics might come into play rather than luck/unfair rules knowledge.

[spiritusXmachina]

Modifiers are applied. So in some cases it is not possible to roll a blunder. Lizzies have an advantage there.

@Steamrolling: You know that every unit only is allowed to make one advance move (ie charge into another unit) once per turn?
Just wanted to make sure...

Greetings,
Gerald

[wmchaos2000]

Modifiers are applied. So in some cases it is not possible to roll a blunder.

How do you mean?
If a double 6 is rolled it is always a blunder, except for generals.
The modifiers are only used to establish what roll you need to succeed. (Ld-Mod=RollNeeded)
At least that is the way we play it, is that wrong?

[pw]

Thanks for the replies.

I think we got the pursuit/advance rules correct, you can pursue the initial target multiple times can't you?

As for blunders, we decided on natural 12s (2 x 6) as the brigade rules say 'rolls' a 12. Similarly the Slann special rule says 'any roll of double six' when detailing the benefits of the Slann general. Is the general consensus among the tournament scene that it's any result of 12 (or more) after modifiers?

[captPiett]

I don't know about tournaments, but our group has always played the "natural" rolled double six for blunders. Reading the blunder rule again, I think modifiers could reasonably be taken into account to get the '12', but I shudder to think about the numbers of blunders I would subsequently role 
If the natural 12 is only a house rule, I think its one I'll keep!

[Guthwine]

I think we got the pursuit/advance rules correct, you can pursue the initial target multiple times can't you?

Yes thats right, there are no round restrictions for pursuit but you only have one advance move after you kill the initial target.

As for blunders, if you roll double sixes its a blunder and nothing else. I dont see how any modifiers would apply to the command roll.

[Lex]

As for blunders, if you roll double sixes its a blunder and nothing else. I dont see how any modifiers would apply to the command roll.

There are certain rules/circumstance. best example is Slann's Divine Guidance which actualy deducts one pip of the dice-roll (instead of testing against a +1 Ld modifier). Under Divine Guidance you can not roll a 12.

[Guthwine]

Ok I see, didnt know that its a -1 to the dice roll, thought its just a +1 bonus for the command value. But its the only exception isnt it?

[pw]

best example is Slann's Divine Guidance which actualy deducts one pip of the dice-roll (instead of testing against a +1 Ld modifier). Under Divine Guidance you can not roll a 12.

Doesn't the DG rule state that you can't blunder?

I think the DG rule pretty much confirms the 'natural six' rule although the juxtaposition of its 'roll a double six' comment with the -1 modifier could be cited as causing confusion by suggesting that it's the modifier that gives the slann this 'no-blunder' ability. I'd challenge that though as it'd lead to a horrible 'RAW' scenario where Lizardmen could blunder on, say, a 5 and a 6 but not on a double six which seems rather counter intuitive.

[jchaos79]

Hi, I see the blunder in these way:

as the rulebook says "[...]whenever a wizard or a hero fails to issue an order as a result of rolling a 12."

0) roll the dice.
1)Apply modifiers --> is the order fail? --> the norm is that you fail with a 6+6 rolling.
2) Yes it is failed. --> has you rolled 12 (6+6 in the table)? --> Yes --> Oh no it is a blunder.

Well, I think this should count to all armies (ok, I never play lizardmen, so I read the divine guiance very quick and long time ago... so my opinion is very questionable here, but... if there is a 6+6 on the table... I think the lizard has blunder too    )

[pw]

My reading is the same with the exception of Lizardmen (I read their rules yesterday) where it specifically states that a double six (when using Divine Guidance) is not a blunder. A second double six (i.e. with another hero would be a blunder however as DG can't be used once it has been failed).

[jchaos79]

If divine guidance is design with the purpose of not letting the hero wizard blunder, then is todo ok.

"When the divine intervention guides your hand you can not blunder" 

[Lex]

^^  with divine guidance this is intentional. Not make the Ld better, but deduct from dice-roll