Sazzel Empire v. Doob Orcs 1000 Points

[Sazzel]

Ok, my Knights advance into the Orcs in front of them, and I forgot to move my Hero and General, even though I said I did, so I hope you don't mind that I nudged them up to reasonable positions. Now the Knights get +1 for charging in the open and have 5 stands, so that is 20 attacks at 4+ to hit:

Result of the throw of dice "20d6" :

1 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 1 + 2 + 3 + 6 + 3 + 2 + 6 + 3 + 5 + 4 + 3 + 3 + 1 + 6 + 3 + 3 = 64

Wow, only 6 hits, 6+ to save:

Result of the throw of dice "6d6" :

1 + 6 + 5 + 1 + 3 + 3 = 19

One save, so five wounds. Now the Orcs get to attack back, but you get to direct to attacks, so I will let you do that, and work out the results of that.

I have The Battle Banner on Halberdiers1, and The Sword of Fate on my General.

http://zendwarf.com/bc/wm/1/Orcs_vs_Empire.xml

[Doob]

That's fine to move your characters.

2 stands attack Knights 2 with 8 attacks

Result of the throw of dice "8d6" :

5 + 2 + 3 + 3 + 6 + 3 + 6 + 4 = 32

4 saves at 4+

Result of the throw of dice "4d6" :

2 + 1 + 3 + 2 = 8

Another flucky roll - that's 4 wounds

Remaining stand attacks Knights 1

Result of the throw of dice "4d6" :

3 + 1 + 2 + 2 = 8

Darn, no hits

So that is 5 wounds on me, 4 on you.  I retreat 1 cm and it is back to you to choose whether to pursue, stand or fall back.

Orcs_vs_Empire.xml - 101.1 KB

[Brutalrage]

these orcs are tough! and ferocious

lovin it!

[Sazzel]

The Knights pursue, and end up like so:



+1 attack per stand for pursuit, 4 stands, so 16 attacks at 4+ to hit:

Result of the throw of dice "16d6" :

3 + 4 + 4 + 2 + 2 + 5 + 2 + 5 + 6 + 3 + 6 + 4 + 2 + 2 + 6 + 5 = 61

9 hits, 6+ saves:

Result of the throw of dice "9d6" :

1 + 6 + 1 + 4 + 1 + 3 + 6 + 3 + 4 = 29

7 wounds, and the Orcs2 die, but not before they attack back. This is easy this time since there is only one stand in contact with each unit of Knights. 4 attacks against Knights1, 4+ to hit:

Result of the throw of dice "4d6" :

3 + 6 + 2 + 6 = 17

2 hits, 4+ to save:

Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :

6 + 4 = 10

Nice, both saved. Now 4 attacks against Knights2, 4+ to hit:

Result of the throw of dice "4d6" :

6 + 4 + 6 + 2 = 18

3 hits, 4+ to save:

Result of the throw of dice "3d6" :

1 + 3 + 6 = 10

Bah, only one saved.

Now the Knights1 and Knights2 reform, and that is the end of the Combat Phase, so odd hits are discounted, and we move on to your turn. Here is the lay of the land at the end of my turn:

http://zendwarf.com/bc/wm/1/Orcs_vs_Empire.xml

[TristanHoag]

Hey, guys!  Great looking game so far - I'll have to look into this system and maybe give a game a try.

One note - a detail really.  On the Orc players last turn, some Goblins shot at and drove back a unit of Halberdiers. You had them fall straight back towards the table edge, only forcing interaction with the unit behind them.  They should have been driven straight away from the closest unit which shot at them, and thus may have been forced into the two units to their right, as well. (I think by the rules on Drivebacks - pg. 29 in the online rulebook - and with only a 5cm move, you can get the same result, it would have just looked different...)

I don't think it would have had any impact on the game, mostly telling you for future reference!

Tristan

[Doob]

@Tristan - I didn't notice at the time, but I suspect you are right.  Oh well, not to worry.

So the Orcs are 3 units down for only 1 Empire unit.  Time to Waaagh I think!

Impetus charges:
Chariot unit charges Knights1
Orcs 8 charge Crossbows 2

Reaction shooting by crossbows:

Result of the throw of dice "3d6" :

6 + 3 + 1 = 10

1 hit save on 6

Result of the throw of dice "1d6" :

3

No, so 1 wound on Orcs as they charge

Orcs 5 charge flank of Halbeldiers 5 and 6
Orcs6 charge Halberdiers 5

On to regular orders:
Hero2 tries to order Orcs3&4

Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :

3 + 1 = 4

They move south and closer to the Flagellants.  Positions at this point:



-2 for second move and proximity to enemy

Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :

4 + 2 = 6

Just made it - Orcs4 charge the front of the Flagellants and Orcs 3 charge the flank

Hero1 tries to order most distant unit of Goblins - needs 6 or less

Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :

1 + 1 = 2

They shuffle forward

Orc General tries to order remaining Chariots

Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :

3 + 2 = 5

They move east towards the flank of the lone stand of Knight

Tries for another move at -3, so needs a 5

Result of the throw of dice "2d6" :

6 + 5 = 11

Fails

Characters move - Hero 1 joins Orcs8 in battle
And Orcs7 lose their Confused status

Pic at the end of movement


Combat:

Chariots vs Knights
15 attacks

Result of the throw of dice "15d6" :

3 + 2 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 1 + 4 + 1 + 3 + 5 + 6 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 3 = 52

7 hits saved on 4+

Result of the throw of dice "7d6" :

4 + 1 + 5 + 4 + 2 + 2 + 5 = 23

That's 3 wounds

6 attacks back

Result of the throw of dice "6d6" :

2 + 5 + 4 + 1 + 5 + 6 = 23

4 hits saved on 6s

Result of the throw of dice "4d6" :

5 + 1 + 6 + 1 = 13

So 3 wounds too, and both sides fall back.  The order we do that in may be important, so I think we are supposed to dice off for the choice of moving first or second.  My roll

Result of the throw of dice "1d6" :

4

I'll move on to the other combats and we can do the Fall Backs later.

Orcs6 and 1 stand of Orcs5 against the Halberdiers - 20 attacks

Result of the throw of dice "20d6" :

5 + 1 + 6 + 6 + 4 + 4 + 1 + 2 + 1 + 3 + 6 + 1 + 2 + 3 + 6 + 4 + 5 + 6 + 6 + 3 = 75

11 hits saved on 6

Result of the throw of dice "11d6" :

4 + 4 + 2 + 4 + 1 + 3 + 2 + 1 + 5 + 1 + 2 = 29

Unit wiped out
1stand attacks Halberdiers4

Result of the throw of dice "5d6" :

1 + 4 + 2 + 4 + 4 = 15

3 hits saved on 6s

Result of the throw of dice "3d6" :

3 + 5 + 3 = 11

3 wounds
As you can split your return attacks across 2 units, I'll leave the Empire attacks for you

Orcs3 & 4 vs Flagellants - 4 Orc stands so 20 dice

Result of the throw of dice "20d6" :

1 + 1 + 5 + 4 + 6 + 1 + 3 + 6 + 5 + 3 + 6 + 4 + 5 + 3 + 2 + 5 + 1 + 6 + 5 + 1 = 73

11 wounds so unit wiped out
The Flagellants could split their attacks between my units, so I'll let you decide this, and roll for the attacks yourself.

I'll leave it there before resolving the combat with the Crossbows as possible pursuit from this combat could affect that one.

So, still to do:

Resolve Fall backs from Chariots vs Knights
Resolve Flagellant attacks
Resolve Halbardier5 attacks and conclude combat
Then resolve combat with Crossbows
Tidy up reforming after combat etc

And since it is now almost Christmas here, Merry Christmas everyone!
Orcs_vs_Empire.xml - 110.8 KB

[Sazzel]

Merry Christmas everybody.

Resolve Fall backs from Chariots vs Knights

My d6:

Result of the throw of dice "1d6" :

3

Resolve Flagellant attacks

Flagellants 15 attacks at Orcs4, 4+ to hit:

Result of the throw of dice "15d6" :

1 + 2 + 1 + 4 + 3 + 6 + 3 + 6 + 1 + 2 + 3 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 4 = 45

Fail.  5 wounds. 6+ save:

Result of the throw of dice "5d6" :

2 + 1 + 6 + 6 + 2 = 17

Lol, 2 saves, so 3 wounds.

Resolve Halbardier5 attacks and conclude combat

Halberdiers5 splits half against both, with Halberdiers4 getting one stand attacking Orcs5. 3 attacks 4+ to hit against Orcs6:

Result of the throw of dice "3d6" :

2 + 3 + 6 = 11

One hit, 6+ save:

Result of the throw of dice "1d6" :

4

One wound against Orcs6, now 6 attacks against Orcs5, 4+ to hit:

Result of the throw of dice "6d6" :

6 + 4 + 1 + 3 + 5 + 2 = 21

3 hits, 6+ to save:

Result of the throw of dice "3d6" :

6 + 4 + 5 = 15

Damn, one save so 2 wounds on Orcs5.

[Lex]

I think that after the game we should streamline this and put it on theWarmaster Forum as a sticky:  Warmaster 101.

[Brutalrage]

great idea lex!

[Doob]

Something to remember is that stands attacked on the flank or rear get 1 less attack.  So I think the flagellants should have had 1 less attack, also there should have been 2 less attacks on Orcs5.  Still, I think I got off fairly lightly so I'm happy to ignore it.

The next steps in the central combat need some care if I'm to get them right.  People chip in if I go astray:


Combat result: Orc units inflicted total of 14 unsaved wounds, and the Halberdiers inflicted 3.  So a difference of 11 with no supporting stands on either side.  Halberdiers have to retreat - 11cm halved because of the 2 Empire units, then rounded up to 6cm.  And I believe the retreat has to be sideways away from Orcs5 because Orcs6 are not in contact with the surviving Halberdiers.

The Halberdiers have lost 1 stand in the combat, and I think the only one that it would make sense to lose is the east most one, as otherwise it would be destroyed by retreating into friends in combat.

Finally, I believe that only Orcs5 can pursue as Orcs6 are no longer touching any units in the combat.  Orcs6 can advance into combat, but this is supposed to be resolved after the existing combat engagement.  So first of all, Orcs5 pursue.

Not sure if the Empire Hero would get pulled in by the pursuing stand that loops round the rear on not - have assumed not but include him and his attacks if you wish.

Combat between Orcs and Halberdiers
Orcs stands get 4 attacks + 1 attack for pursuit +2 attacks for 6cm pursuit, so 7 attacks each.

Result of the throw of dice "14d6" :

6 + 3 + 4 + 1 + 2 + 4 + 3 + 4 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 1 + 4 + 4 = 45

7 hits save on 6

Result of the throw of dice "7d6" :

2 + 5 + 3 + 4 + 1 + 2 + 3 = 20

No saves so unit destroyed.

Attacks back by Halberdiers - 2 attacks by each stand (-1 for flank/rear)

Result of the throw of dice "4d6" :

6 + 4 + 6 + 2 = 18

3 hits save on 6

Result of the throw of dice "3d6" :

2 + 3 + 5 = 10

No saves, so that takes the Orcs to 5 woulds between the last round and this, and unit just barely survives with one stand.  They then Fall Back from the combat.

Result of the throw of dice "3d6" :

3 + 1 + 2 = 6

6cm
So I think the resulting situation is as below


And next, Orcs6 do their Advance, which will be into the flank of the Crossbows and Halberdiers.  I'll need to do that as another post.

[Lex]

Actualy you need to do that as PART of the pervious one. The combat is handeled per round, so you are right that Orc6 can opt to Advance, but they need to do so BEFORE a next round of combat is fought !!

So in this case, should they wish to advance they will do so against the retrating halbards. Advance is charge so, centre to centre with one stand fighting C2C

[Doob]

Thanks Lex.  I find the text on p49 of the rules quite difficult to follow through in practice, and was thrown by the text that noted "If the unit has advanced out of a combat engagement that is not finished (as can sometimes happen in large engagements) then complete the original combat engagement before going on to the new one."  I failed to realise that the Advance would happen prior to completing the engagement.

Is there a sequence for who moves first after the retreating Halberdiers?  Is it the advancing unit, or the pursuing unit, or player's choice?  It may not always matter, but I guess it could affect the placing of stands?

As far as this game is concerned, I'll just assume that Orcs6 chose to hold position.  On to the combat between Orcs8 and the Crossbows




Orcs8 vs Crossbows - 17 attacks (inc 2 for the Hero with Sword of Might)

Result of the throw of dice "17d6" :

4 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 1 + 2 + 4 + 4 + 6 + 2 + 3 + 6 + 1 + 4 + 1 + 5 + 4 = 56

9 hits = 9 wounds so unit destroyed

9 attacks back by crossbows

Result of the throw of dice "9d6" :

1 + 3 + 3 + 1 + 4 + 5 + 6 + 3 + 3 = 29

3 hits saved on 6

Result of the throw of dice "3d6" :

6 + 3 + 6 = 15

Lucky Orcs again - 1 wound

Orcs advance into combat with Halberdiers carrying 2 wounds
17 attacks again

Result of the throw of dice "17d6" :

3 + 5 + 1 + 6 + 3 + 1 + 4 + 5 + 4 + 4 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 4 + 1 + 4 + 2 = 56

9 hits saved on 6

Result of the throw of dice "9d6" :

6 + 3 + 6 + 5 + 2 + 6 + 5 + 5 + 4 = 42

3 saved so 6 wounds

9 attacks back

Result of the throw of dice "9d6" :

3 + 5 + 1 + 3 + 6 + 3 + 4 + 2 + 2 = 29

3 hits saved on 6

Result of the throw of dice "3d6" :

6 + 4 + 3 = 13

2 wounds

So Halberdiers lose 2 stands, Orcs lose 1 stand and carry 1 wound, and Halberds are pushed back 4cm.  Orcs pursue.

Orcs get 6 attacks per stand (4 +1 for Pursuit +1 for 4cm retreat) and 2 attacks for Hero = 14 attacks

Result of the throw of dice "14d6" :

6 + 3 + 4 + 1 + 4 + 2 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 2 + 5 + 6 + 1 + 4 = 47

6 hits saved on 6

Result of the throw of dice "6d6" :

3 + 1 + 4 + 4 + 4 + 4 = 20

No saves so unit destroyed

3 attacks back

Result of the throw of dice "3d6" :

5 + 5 + 6 = 16

3 hits saved on 6

Result of the throw of dice "3d6" :

3 + 3 + 3 = 9

3 wounds, so Orcs just survive with 2 wounds on their last stand.  And I think at that point the Empire army has lost half its units and is forced to withdraw.



Thanks very much for the game Sassel.  I think the dice were very kind to me (sometimes I was wishing I had started a dice log as as a string of good rolls starts to get embarrassing), especially in that last turn, and I could easily have run out of steam, allowing you to possibly finish me off in your next turn.  Aside from the first turn, my virtual Orcs behaved much better than my table top ones, who always seem to have one flank that never moves.

[Sazzel]

Whoa! LOL That was brutal. Did not think I would log in to see the latest post and find out I was annihilated.   

Good game, very instructive. I will have to look closely at the posts for your last turn to see how those complex combats were worked out.

Was it generally a poor idea for me to set up my infantry with Support? Since it does not help with combat itself, only holding a battle line, and seems to make flanking attacks twice as devastating.

[Brutalrage]

i think what u did was fine bro, however it seems you got out-manouvered by the orcs.
they held their left flank (for you right) in check, trying to hold the ground, and then made a sweep with the other flank.
this is what caused alot of the flanking.... also your flagellants not doin much does not help at all

also i think u could have done more with your knights.

for next game try to use your inf as bait, as to force openings, and then knights to destroy openings that you get. remember that your knights are strong in the open against basically anything.

what could also have worked well was some arty in the form of cannons. i dont remember how big this battle was, but in 2K i always try to include some, as it can force more openings.

the game of warmaster is one of manouvering. seeing the larger picture, instead of the more zoomed in view of the warhammer games, where its all about building beardy lists

just keep playing and soon you will find yourself doin fancy manouvers, like a pincer move or w/e

[Lex]

On the sequence of pursuit and Advances....

we normaly do Pursuits first and Advances After, as for the Advancing unit this means theyenter a NEW combar........

Folling the pursuitsequence from the LRF/errata by the letter is prety straightforward.

In short
1) move stands that had frontal contact directly forward AND in the same position )which is what you did)
2) move stands that can make frontal contact (note that you do NOT need to extend frontage !!  but need at least 5mm room for frontal contact
2a) remember that it can move "around " stuff or through to small a gap !!
2b) remember it needs to retain unit integrety
3) move other stands in C2C contact (where possible) or in support  not rules 2a' and 2b) apply

I think you handeled it correctly btw