Which Kislev list to use?

[pw]

Hi All,

I'm going to be running out my Kislev army tonight (admittedly they look rather like a bunch of chaos hounds and Empire knights) and have noticed that there are two lists. The one available in the 'official' army list PDF and another in the 2009 Warmaster Trial Armies compendium. I'm wondering what the rationale was for the experimental list (which contains a number of troop types that aren't available to the earlier list and which drops the points cost for cavalry while making them slightly tougher).

My preference is generally for official lists but if the later list was developed due to imbalance I'd be tempted to use it (or bits of it, likely dropping the new troops types).

Any comments?

[Lex]

2d one adressed some balance issues (I think)....   different trooptypes ??

[pw]

I should have said unit types, sorry. There's a new cavalry unit (somewhere between horse archers and winged lancers), and new infantry (a combination of axemen and handgunners).

[Lex]

hmmmm   ??  I guess I should check

I know we played around with the Warwagon, but that may just have been for the errata.......

[Bel]

Kislev trial army - The difference (shortly):
1. Winged Lancers have no AS4 anymore. Instead they have chariot attack ability. In total 10 pts less.
2. Cossacks are similar to the Pistolliers (but restricted in numbers).
3. Red Guards (or Streltsy - 1/1000 max) - handgunners with AS5 - unique infantry unit with AS5.
4. Yozhin - shaman's terror causing monster mount.

The playing with this army means the using of mainly manoeuvres/flanking etc. with a lack of hammer units (such as common heavy cavalry) and is a bit similar to WMA style.
From my own point of view this army is 'overbalanced' but this is my humble opinion and to play (and win) with this army is a challenge anyway.
Perhaps Getlord would be so kind to tell more.

You may need opponent (or a tournament organizers) approval.

[Getlord]

Hi,
our idea was to prepare the army list which reflects original "weakenes" of the army, while adding more fun to use it.
One additional important change is reducing the cost of horse archers to 75 p. (from 80).

Reducing the armour save of former heavy cavalry (i.e. Winged Lancers), while adding the attack in the charge, results in the possibility to build more horde army than in original form and keeping the "overbalanced" status still. I would say other changes or new units higly limited in numbers are done for fun only and have no real impact on the power or tactics while giving much more freedom in the modelling area.

But coming back to "core" cavalry.
1. Now we have truly "best in class" light, short-ranged cavalry. They are better only because they are a little bit more cost effective than usual, but still, now they can certainly diffrentiate.
2. And we have beautiful middle class cavalry with quite heavy punch imitating real Winged Lancers who charged furiously, but were not armoured fully. In my opinion they are even more "kislevish" than before.

All in all having 4xHorse Archers + 4xWinged Lancers you get 4x5+4x10=60 points left to make your army more like a horde (in comparison to original list), but in fact giving you the possibility for more infantry support only. OR you can go for an upgrade of some Horse Archers to Cossacks which are definately additional fun to play. You can opt for Jozhin or some handgun armed infantry also.

More fun, isn't it? But please remember it is fun list and - as Bel said - you definately need clear agreement with your oponent or organizer before bringing them to tournament play.

Hope that helps a bit.