A few questions from two interested gamers

[Wargaming Dude]

I was directed here from Warseer.
So I'll repost my topic here (with a few changes):

Me and my brother (who enjoy the hobby mostly between us alone) have recently shown interest in 10mm scale wargames. Liking Fantasy in general more than Sci-Fi or Historicals, we are considering Warmaster.

A few questions to those well versed on the game:
1. Is GW and eBay / Bater Town / etc. the only places to get Warmaster?
2. What is the average point size you play?
3. At MSRP (USD), what is the average cost of an Army at said point range?
4. At MSRP, can you do decent/good 1000pts or 1500pts (or in between) lists with a $100? We like to slow grow.
5. How good or bad is the ruleset? Does it scale well up or down?
6. We also are considering how viable would be getting the Battle of the Five Armies boxed set and use it as their Warmaster equivalents (all those minis plus a Citadel Hill and it's a standalone game to boot). Anyone considered it?

[amnar]

I've been putting together a force for ages, and just started gaming early last year, so let me give you my two cents:

1. Is GW and eBay / Bater Town / etc. the only places to get Warmaster?

Pretty much.  You can get some great deals on ebay, and also on forums, I'd recommend trying the trade forum on this site.

2. What is the average point size you play?

I personally prefer 2,000.

3. At MSRP (USD), what is the average cost of an Army at said point range?

Depending on the army, you're looking at $200-$500.  Horde armies cost significantly more.  The 2,000 point Araby army that I'm planning will cost me ~$400 for that.  That's MSRP (CAD) though, and we tend to get the shaft on prices up here. 

4. At MSRP, can you do decent/good 1000pts or 1500pts (or in between) lists with a $100? We like to slow grow.

Chaos can possibly do it, or at least get close.  They have the most expensive troops in the game.

5. How good or bad is the ruleset? Does it scale well up or down?

Hands down my favorite GW ruleset, in fact it's the only one I still play.  I'd say the game scales up better than it scales down.  2,000 - 3,000 is the sweet spot.

6. We also are considering how viable would be getting the Battle of the Five Armies boxed set and use it as their Warmaster equivalents (all those minis plus a Citadel Hill and it's a standalone game to boot). Anyone considered it?

I personally haven't, but I'm sure others have. 

As an aside, the miniatures are downright gorgeous.  Once you see them up close you'll be even more impressed.  They're also very wash and drybrush friendly. 

Cheers

[Wargaming Dude]

We are also considering just getting the Battle of the Five Armies (or two) to test the waters on the system. With the Hobbit coming out soon, it looks very appealing.

[Brutalrage]

Allow me to give my 2ct.


1. Is GW and eBay / Bater Town / etc. the only places to get Warmaster?
pretty much. but you can get really good deals on there. ive seen whole armies go at yardsale prices

2. What is the average point size you play?
for me the best point cost is 2K, its where most armies can get out a few colorful units and still have a decent core

3. At MSRP (USD), what is the average cost of an Army at said point range?
im not a USD man, but id say between 200-300 euro's, and that said, after that ur pretty much set, no more buying new troops cause the new codex made ur old units underpowered and the new models overpowered (40k and fantasy however...)

4. At MSRP, can you do decent/good 1000pts or 1500pts (or in between) lists with a $100? We like to slow grow.
after reaching 1K points for the both of you, you can start havin nice games. try to do objectives more then all out slugfests though, its more fun imo. If i can make a suggestion, first go to Warmuster, and print out some unitcards there, and play around with the different armies, to get a feel for each, before investing into buying units. it would suck to get half-way through of collecting (for instance) a skaven army and then find out you would have liked (for example) high elfs more. Also read the fluff and special rules to each army before playin so u can better get into the admosphere. this will also help u choose an army u like quicker/better.
Should u have other questions, please do ask! thats what we're here for

5. How good or bad is the ruleset? Does it scale well up or down?
best ruleset ive ever worked with. allows for very fast paced and fluid gameplay. its so good other miniature games copied it!

6. We also are considering how viable would be getting the Battle of the Five Armies boxed set and use it as their Warmaster equivalents (all those minis plus a Citadel Hill and it's a standalone game to boot). Anyone considered it?
havent so cant comment on this

[David Wasilewski]

The only 2 cents that I'd add is that as long as you have the time, space and cash, I'd recommend playing with armies of 4000 points a side. That's the 'sweet spot' size of battles our group has settled on. I'd start with 2000 points a side and work up in 500 point blocks though.

It would be cheaper to go 5 Armies but if you prefer the warhammer world fluff, there's nothing like metal figures that represent a range of warhammer units - gorgeous!

Best game GW have ever done IMO. Apart from the very very occasional game of Epic, it's the only GW game I play anymore.

Dave

[Haranin]

BOFA is an excellent starter for goblins, men, elves or dwarves. The good races will need to buy alot more at a later date. For $100 its a good deal

[spiritusXmachina]

And the BofA wolves are good for making Vampire Dire Wolves.
But imo the drawback concerning Bofa is that every stand looks like the other so the units look a bit more artificial (although good painting helps a bit). Warmaster units have more variance there. But BofA still is a good deal and the Citadel Hill is great, you get a few ruins too and the pinning system BofA has for the units is quite handy.

But if you first want a grip on the game I also recommend the paper counters at Warmuster.

[Dave]

1. Yep, the last two are where you get the best deals. Some local stores offer a discount on special orders. One of ours does, plus with Christmas vouchers you can get stuff for 40% off retail effectively.

2. 2k, or 1.5k if we're pressed for time.

3. For those armies that I've tracked, I've paid between $4 and $9USD per blister. Buy in bulk and trade/sell what you don't want/need. It keeps costs low.

4. Easily.

5. The rules are abstract and simple (not simplistic). I really enjoy them and there's not much I would do to change them. Print out some counters and try a game for yourself: http://sites.google.com/site/wmplaytest/work-in-progress-1/publications

6. It'll make a Goblin or O&G pretty easily, the others not so much. All the strips for each unit are exactly the same. That bugs me, but you might not care. They're also more true-scale 10mm than the Warmaster figs.

[jchaos79]

I recommend you first take a look on battle reports to have an idea of what the battles looks like http://sg.tacticalwargames.net/forum/index.php?board=60.0

Now my 2 cents:

1. There are a wide varity of other manufacturers cheaper than GW that you could use to building up an army
here I give you a list of manufacturers. There is other information in spanish, you can ignore it and go straight to the links
Copplestone Castings. 5,35£ (infantería 6x5; caballería  12: arqueros 12x2) http://www.copplestonecastings.co.uk/

Chariot miniatures. ? http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~firefall/chariot.htm

Eureka Miniatures. 13,50 AU$ (infantería 30; caballería 15) http://eurekamin.com.au/scale10mm.php

Games Workshop. 12,50€/ 8£/ 15$ (infantería 6x5; caballería 6x2; 12x2) http://www.games-workshop.com

GFI (Minifigs). 6,95$ (infantería 24; caballería 12) http://minifigs.com/catalog/

GHQ (Micro Force). 7,95$ (infantería 26; caballería 12) http://www.ghqmodels.com/store/n-scale-model-railroad.html

Irregular Miniatures. 15p (infantería 1); 30p (caballería 1) http://www.irregularminiatures.co.uk/

Kallistra. 5£ (infantería 8x4; caballería 16) http://www.ghqmodels.com/

Langton Miniatures. 4,50£ (edificio 1) http://www.rodlangton.com/starfort/10mm.htm

Magister Millitum. 5£ (infantería 30; caballería 12) http://www.navigatorminiatures.com/prodtype.asp?PT_ID=3&strPageHistory=cat

Musket Miniatures. 6,95$ (infantería 24; caballería 24) http://www.musketminiatures.com/

Obelisk Miniatures. 5,50€ (infantería 30; caballería 15) http://www.obeliskminiatures.com/

Old Glory Miniatures. 9,50$ (infantería 50 o 30); 16$ (caballería 30) http://www.oldgloryminiatures.com/categories.asp?cat=10

Pendraken Miniatures. Histórico 3,25£ (infantería 30; caballería 15), Fantasía y Sci Fi 1,45£ (infantería 10; caballería 5) http://www.pendraken.co.uk/index.html

Steve Barber Models. 3£ (infantería 20; caballería 10) http://www.sbarber-models.clara.net/main.html

Stone Mountain Miniatures. 3,95$ (banderas de papel 1hoja) http://www.historicalminiatures.com/flags10.html#English

TB Miniatures. 5,28€ (infantería 24; caballería 12) http://www.tridentebologna.it/miniature_E.php?epoch=2

Warrior Miniatures. 60p (infantería 10) http://www.warrioronline.demon.co.uk/10mm/index.htm



2- For beginners and slow players and quick battles I recommend 1000-1500 points per battle. I use to play that way.

3- Depends a lot of the manufacturer you go. Gw is like doubling the price. Count that an army is between 10-15 units (depends chaos needs less units that undead). For GW a blister is 12 euros.
I feel really pleasant to use cav with the half of miniatures per unit. You get for a blister 2 units, and the bases are more dynamic and you could enjoy better the paint. It is up to you.

4- Yep I think you can get an army to start with and have a lot of fun

5- The rulset is superb. I do not find yet another system better than this.

6- I find 10mm and 6mm perfect scale for warmaster system. and to evocate a real battle.

7- Battle of five army is a great game to play. Also the minis are easly transported to other armies. I recommend it, (I have to set of battle of five armies)
 

[captPiett]

I'd recommend the BoFA boxed set. It's one of the few/only good deals left with GW specialist games. I used it to start orcs and goblins, and high elf armies. The humans are suitable stand-ins for elves, and the dwarves can be used as Dogs of War mercenaries if you so choose. Plus the terrain is very useful. If nothing else, you can buy that first, try out the rules (that are very similar to WM) and see if you like it.

On repetitive figure stands: a good paint job can fix that, as well as chopping up the stands to mix/match them. I didn't do that, but all of them are plastic, so it shouldn't be that difficult.

[Happymcclap]

1. To add to the advice above, i'd also recommend considering other manufacturers other than GW, although GW are probably the best sculpts out there at this scale, cost and availability are both negative factors (most armies contain at least 1 OOP unit which even if you find on e-bay can cost an arm and a leg) if youre prepared to accept other companies miniatures from the start (and most players i come across have no problem with my mix of manufacturers)  you will be less disappointed later on when you cant complete an army due to the unavailability of cetain units.

Plus sooner rather than later GW will drop this line IMO.

2. I tend to play 1000pt games at the moment, mainly due to time contraints, but  1000 -2000 is considered average.

3. you can get full army packs from the likes of Magister militum and Kallistra for £50-£70 which will easily give you enough for a starting army

4. yes, if prepared to use other than GW

5. the basic rules, are reasonably simple, fairly fast play, and great fun, one of the best rules sets out here, however once you add in the subtle yet significant changes introduced in Warmaster Ancients adn Medieval it becomes probably my favourite rules-set in 25+years of gaming

6 its a cheap way of building up your mini collection especially if you want an Orc & Goblin army, plus the hill is great. Rules are a very slightly modified version of basic warmaster

[mean_liar]

You can always d/load unit counters for your favorite army, print them out, put them onto the sticky side of a 1'x1' self-sticking vinyl tile, and cut them out with a box cutter.

Then you'd have a whole army for... really cheap. Really, really cheap.

That's always an option.

[azrael71]

BOFA is a great starting point for a number of armies.
O&G is the obvious one, but I have used about 3 sets to build up some of my armies (wood elves, dwarves and albion/bretonnian).

[Guthwine]

Just my 2 cents. The ruleset is nothing too great or realistic but fun and smooth. (its Fantasy after all) It basically comes down to making the command rolls and often times the greatest tactician gets beaten by the dice without being able to react to that or do anything else.

For me the greatest thing about Warmaster is the view when 2 large armies clash on some nice terrain. (with the LOTR soundtrack playing in my head. )

I highly recommend making a test game with cardboard cutouts just to see if you like the rules. Its why I did and its a possibility to try it without any costs.

[pw]

Did anyone mention that Empire, Chaos and Elf and Undead armies can be picked up relatively cheaply on ebay? With a bit of patience these armies aren't hard to come by at around half price which means a 2000 pt army might come in at about £100.