Your views on Monsters

[calmacil]

We were playing warmaster the other day at GW HQ, and our game always attracts lots of attention from interested gamers. One bystander said to us ..."i love both your armies, but don't you get bigger monsters like dragons in warmaster?" I then explained that you do, but not many people use them.

Afterwards i was thinking what a shame this was, my dark elf hydra is my favourite model in my army. But  when i write an army list comparing the cost of a hydra (135 points) to a unit of Cold One Knights (130 points) there is no contest which one is more effective. Cold Ones win every time. I think i'd still ponder whether to take a hydra if they cost 70 points.

With my O&G the only time i've lost a game with them is when i've taken a giant in my list. I think giants are better value monsters, and very effective if you can get in close and purposely fail with Cmd rolls  But lots of chariots and boar riders usually wins me the day with orcs.


What's everyone elses views on monsters? do you take them often? do you think they are worth it? .... (and i'm not talking about character mounts)

Or is it because the equivalent fantasy warmaster cavalry is too cheap? i notice warmaster ancient hvy cav (3/3, 4+) costs 130 and in warmaster they cost 110

[TristanHoag]

I know what you are saying!  I love to use the bigger monsters, if just for the visual appeal... Even if it means that I am sacrificing some of the effectiveness of the army overall. I will run a pair of Stegadons in my lizardman army, just because I love the models.  It has cost me games, but I like the look/feel/backstory of my armies more than their win/loss record.

I would say that anytime that you are playing in a public situation, you should at least have the models on hand to show off - that can be the kind of thing that can get people into the game!

Tristan

[schwager]

I for one am all for monsters and more "fluffy" armies, rather than efficient ones.
But then again, I've yet to play my first game of Warmaster

I do find, however, that there isn't enough big stuff in the current Warmaster lists. When you look at Warhammer artwork, there are always plenty of monsters and other really big stuff around in the background. I thought Warmaster would be perfect to move these beauties into the foreground a bit more... but apparently that's just me.

They've done a great job with that in Epic (Titans and War Engines), though.

I will definitely be building some big stuff for my Chaos army, if I ever get around to it. Planning to make a unit of Dragon Ogres using the Epic 40k Ork Squiggoth models...

[Guthwine]

The armies I have (as of yet ) dont have any big monsters but Id definetly take whatever I could because that is what the 10mm scale is made for.

The rest of the Austrian group goes more for efficiency, we even have one that plays Araby without Elefants (= a crime, yes I mean YOU ) The big guys only show up in 2000+ battles because cavalry is just to good to swap them them with a monster in 2000p games.

[pw]

On the topic of monsters, I'm also all for them, it's a shame that they're lacking from the armies I've got so far. I was wondering about writing a 'Storm of Magic' scenario that brought more in for all armies (using Vincent's excellent Magic Fulcrum sculpt).

Planning to make a unit of Dragon Ogres using the Epic 40k Ork Squiggoth models

Do you mean something other than these guys:

[schwager]

@pw: Yip, more like these guys (by Andy Skinners - hope it's okay to link this picture here):



I love those, but not so keen on the use of the chariot. Think I'm gonna build my (what do you call the bit the troops are in) myself, unless I can find something more suitable.

There are more pics of Andy Skinners version here:
http://2md.dk/gw-warmaster/images/armies/chaos/chaos_undivided/andy_skinners_chaos/

[amnar]

I never leave home without my Chaos Dragon in games 2,000 points and over....

[azrael71]

Large monsters are easily pointed into the game, but are usually a points drain and are vulnerable to attack.
I have a few in my collection.








As for regular monsters, I do normally take them, not because they are viable, but because I am a fluff fan
They are not effective points wise compared to other units, but I enjoy playing fun and entertaining games, not cheese ridden lists.
Heroes on terror-causers, well there's a different story

[calmacil]

Dragon Ogres

Ah yeah i forgot that some armies have 3 monsters in a unit, i've played against dragon ogres and think they're very good, i wouldn't put them in this catergory (24 attacks on a charge is scary  ) When i made my post I was referring to big single monsters that move around on their own  (dark elf hydra, sphinx, the high elf dragons (not the +100 pnt character mnt) and possibly even the Steam Tank (i know they aren't monsters))
Just wondered how many people use any of those? i've seen jc use a sphinx in a bat rep 

@amnar... i didn't mean character mounts, i think the chaos dragon as a mount for a character is great. I'd take a dragon mount in my dark elf army if I could.

@azrael.. i'm a fluff fan as well. But i do like to feel i stand a chance in the game. My main opponent takes as many cavalry units as he can. You can hardly blame him, he's got bretonnians so his break point is affected by it. Also, i love that dwarf zeplin, think i went to college with the guy that made that 

[BlackEd]

Did you see the photos from the NH Warmaster event?  Tristan did some awesome conversions on his steam tanks.

Anyway, I like the look of the big stuff.  They tend not to perform on the battlefield.  However, there are some exceptions.

When I played High Elves, I loved the Dragon Rider.  He causes awesome damage and can charge in from afar. 

When I started playing Daemons, I tried removing monsters from my army list.  However, I found that I only enjoyed playing my Daemons when I included my Greater Daemon in the list.  The odd thing is, now that I've included the Greater Daemon, I've won more than I lost.

[amnar]

That's a good point.  I suppose I've never used Spawn, but that's because I haven't painted any yet

[Happymcclap]

Due to the armies i have, i only use 4 large (single base) monsters regularly, HE Dragon, TK Sphinx & Bone Giant, O&G Giant, i like them all, and they definately have their tactical uses (personally i think their essential in a TK army) besides adding a fluff/fun factor, they do seem to be a bit costly however, or and as the OP says Hvy Cav are too cheap in comparison, it maybe worth considering whenever the lists are revised.

[Brutalrage]

imo the monsters should be cheaper; would solve all problems

[Stormwind]

All GW systems seem to have this problem - the units that seem the most "fun" are also the ones that are "uncompetitive"! x-)

For what it's worth the moment I decided I really had to have a Warmaster army was when I saw the Hydra on the GW website. =-P

[calmacil]

imo the monsters should be cheaper; would solve all problems

Yes i agree. But none of opponents would agree if i turned up to a game saying.."okay i adjusted the points for a Hydra, they now cost 70 points" 

I know one of my friends would love it if chaos warriors were 125, or chaos knights 150. ... that's the problem, it's knowing where to stop