[WM] 10mm fantasy miniatures range survey

[schwager]

Hello fellow Specialist Gamers

I have long been toying with the idea of creating concepts (art) for a range of 10mm fantasy miniatures.
So I thought I'd better start by finding out what people are looking for in such a range.

If you could be so kind and spare a few minutes of your time and let me know your thoughts, that would be very much appreciated.

This poll will run for 10 days and everyone can cast up to three votes.

In case there is something you'd like to see that isn't covered in the options above, please leave a short comment and let me know what it is.

I'm also be interested in hearing from any talented sculptors who might be interested in being part of such an endeavour.
It's still very early days (and it might never happen), but I thought I'd put my feelers out there.
You can PM me, or email me directly.

In any case, thank you very much in advance for participating.
I'll look forward to hearing everyone's thoughts.

[Lex]

1) Generic units make a lot of sense......   GoT as a range would be interesting, but could be done with generic units that would work also for other settings (and even historic periods)
eg. Unsullied would work well for Araby setting too, Nightwatch could be pressed in as alternative marauders or norse (in the later case do some wildlings to use as scouting/skirmishing troops. Ironborn also would work like that and any household troops would find their way into Bretonian and Empire armies (as well as DoW) or possibily even into chaos (depending on the armourstyles used !
2) Alternative units = more variatons is always a good thing
4/5) same goes for alternative monsters/mounts and stuff that would work as characters.....

[spiritusXmachina]

I think Bretonnian Pegasus Knights and Trebuchets could find some buyers.

[Lex]

I think Bretonnian Pegasus Knights and Trebuchets could find some buyers.

Eureka has Peggies now !  See Frogbear posts !

[Stormwind]

I voted  1 2 and 3.

I would love to see more explicit Wood Elves / Ogres / Fan list things like that, as well as things like bears and bear riders and war wagong to replace the sadly gone Kislev range.

[David Wasilewski]

I voted 2,3,4.

I'd like to see alternatives to use for oop and for existing 'core' where there's not much choice e.g. Empire spearmen as well as Halberdiers, greatswords etc.

Dave

[jchaos79]

First of all: Great initiative!

Then my choices:
1. Generic fantasy: I love those golden years in the 80's with generic fantasy made by granadier, nick land, and ral partha, that pops up with full display of imagination and open minded set of figures. Love to see this explosion in 10mm figures (and also it is not a complain because we have nowdays several active manufacturers).

2. Mythological or known characters: I will love to see "known" characters replicas in 10mm. From the depth of the myths like (just a brain storming)
a) - Gilgamesh and babylonian fashion warriors. Some winged bull headed and mesopotamian royal hunters.
b) - Greek myths and heros, like argonauts, Hercules, Helen of Troy, Mycenan kings (Agamenon), Minos kings, pegasus and persus, titans. Atlantis people and sea gods.
c) - Egyptian mythology, as scorpion men, half animal gods, hero and soldiers. Pyramid treasure hunters, priest of Bastat, Sea people pirates. Queen Hatsesup and a expedition party heading to punt land.
d) - Anatolian mythology, hittites kings, storm gods, phoenician giants caming form the city of Gath, David the herder hero and his son Salomon the builder of temples. Leviatian monster.
e) - A set of medieval heros like saladin, richard lion heart, Charlomagne and a pope.
f) - Pendragon and arthur mythology - based on jhon boorman films and Malory texts.
g) film and novels mythology - Macmartigan, Tygra, Conan and a plenty of hyper-borian peoples, Moorcock heros like Elric or Corum, Slain -comicbook - with fomorians and those magnificent Bisley's imaginarium.

A bunch of personalities figures with very different background could give some kick off to starts new armies with the rest of the actual manufacturers. It is not necesarry to develop a whole range, just having the commands will motivate your brain to start searching for the bulk troops.

3. "Ittttts .... and now something completly different!" - My third option is a new branch of figures. It could be new army for warmaster world oriental style, or army based in lovercraft horror (it is possible as Black Ed has proved us).
My personal choice and what I would like the most is seeing in 10mm armies from Glorantha - the world created by Greg Stafford and developed in rpg games like rune quest -  a mix of bronze age and celtic and nomad figures, no orcs but trolls, plenty of magic and armies in epic battles. Also there is a computer game from the 90's called Dragon Pass who had a very interesting and beautiful art which explore the orlanthi culture.

I know my response is very wide, but it is a kind of brain storming (and I think is what you were searching for)

[pw]

I voted for the 'other stuff' category. What I'd really like to see is good 10mm fantasy terrain. I don't know of anything that quite ticks this box at the moment. The more GW in style the better for me.

[Guthwine]

2. Mythological or known characters: I will love to see "known" characters replicas in 10mm. From the depth of the myths like (just a brain storming)
a) - Gilgamesh and babylonian fashion warriors. Some winged bull headed and mesopotamian royal hunters.
b) - Greek myths and heros, like argonauts, Hercules, Helen of Troy, Mycenan kings (Agamenon), Minos kings, pegasus and persus, titans. Atlantis people and sea gods.
c) - Egyptian mythology, as scorpion men, half animal gods, hero and soldiers. Pyramid treasure hunters, priest of Bastat, Sea people pirates. Queen Hatsesup and a expedition party heading to punt land.
d) - Anatolian mythology, hittites kings, storm gods, phoenician giants caming form the city of Gath, David the herder hero and his son Salomon the builder of temples. Leviatian monster.
e) - A set of medieval heros like saladin, richard lion heart, Charlomagne and a pope.
f) - Pendragon and arthur mythology - based on jhon boorman films and Malory texts.
g) film and novels mythology - Macmartigan, Tygra, Conan and a plenty of hyper-borian peoples, Moorcock heros like Elric or Corum, Slain -comicbook - with fomorians and those magnificent Bisley's imaginarium.

I definitely second that, miniatures for a WMA-Myth type of game would be fantastic.

Other than that I voted for generic and monsters.

Terrain would also be nice, I wouldnt mind a GW style either. Its also a category where sales surely would be better, after all pretty much everyone (thats into 10mm gaming) could use a 10mm village/castle/forest, while not everyone would want new knights/warriors/etc.

[frogbear]

While making what is already made but better sounds like a neat idea, I would much prefer you concentrate on what is missing and then look at fun but different ideas on the same themes.

While you may have support here for now, people do not buy what they already have when money becomes an issue.

[schwager]

Thank you all for your votes and comments so far... you guys are awesome!
This is all tremendously insightful and I will certainly keep all your suggestions in mind, if and when this endeavour comes to fruition. Until then, keep it coming.

Reading your replies has also prompted a few more questions that didn't really fit into the original poll. So, instead of spamming the forum with further polls, I thought I'd add these into the discussion here:

1. In general, do you prefer your troops strip mounted or individually based? And why?
Also, does that go for both, Infantry and Cavalry?

2. With that in mind, do you prefer to buy whole units, or individual strips/figures?

3. Same goes for Characters and Monsters. Do you prefer to buy them individually or in packs/sets?

4. How do you personally judge the quality of a 10mm sculpt? Or, what makes a good 10mm figure for you?
I know, this is an odd one, but I find myself looking at a lot of 10mm ranges out there, and they simply don't appeal to me... especially when compared to GW figures. It may just be the photos, but I often find that the proportions are not quite right (big heads, small horses, etc.).

5. As far as I can tell, 10mm scale is not a very accurate measurement. How much of an issue do think the different sizes between various ranges are?

6. With a completely new range/setting, would you want it to have its own rules set? Or just the minis?

And lastly, I'm guessing that most people on this forum here are fairly biased towards (as am I) GW's Warmaster, both in terms of aesthetics as well as the rules... is that correct?
Not that this is a bad thing, but since there are quite a few historical and (though fewer) fantasy ranges already out there, there must be a few 10mm enthusiasts that aren't necessarily playing Warmaster.
So I was wondering if any of you know of any other communities where it might be worth asking some of these questions to gain further insight into what sort of market for 10mm ranges is out there.

That's it for now. Thanks again, I'll look forward to hearing everyone's thoughts

[frogbear]

1. In general, do you prefer your troops strip mounted or individually based? And why?
Also, does that go for both, Infantry and Cavalry?

Not too fussed really. The bonus with individuals is that it is less messy when trying to make things unique.

2. With that in mind, do you prefer to buy whole units, or individual strips/figures?

Individual strip figures for the above reasons.

3. Same goes for Characters and Monsters. Do you prefer to buy them individually or in packs/sets?

As above. Singly is always good.

4. How do you personally judge the quality of a 10mm sculpt? Or, what makes a good 10mm figure for you?

Just look at GW Warmaster minis and get it right I guess 

5. As far as I can tell, 10mm scale is not a very accurate measurement. How much of an issue do think the different sizes between various ranges are?

I just want minis to fit in with what I play. If there are irregularities, I hope that they are either small, or can be disguised by the way they are placed on their bases. If you arte adding to existing armies (and not supplying a full force), then size is pretty important - yes.

6. With a completely new range/setting, would you want it to have its own rules set? Or just the minis?

Not an issue. If you do make rules, I would probably not read them as it would be yet just another wargame for a theme that I already have and play - so really not interested in reading something else at this time - maybe ever.

And lastly, I'm guessing that most people on this forum here are fairly biased towards (as am I) GW's Warmaster, both in terms of aesthetics as well as the rules... is that correct?

Yep. The most enjoyment with the least amount of effort = WIN

[jchaos79]

1. I prefere them individually. But mounting them in strips could be interesting for casting purposes and casting desgin. So I guess that the moulder and the caster should have a word in this. So, as far as the figures represent the "concept" idea they were designed for, it is good for me.

2. I prefere to buy whole units. Easier for the customer. A blister a unit.

3. I prefere character in a pack.

4. For me a good figures wrethe one which I like. -let me explain:
I like Ian figures from irregular figures because they are very proportional and maybe the lack of detail is compensated with this reallistic pose.
I like Clibanari figures form pendraken because they have the detail and also the dynamic pose, even he gets with new ideas of casting to develop the idea of the figures he's wanting to model. An example of this is the late roman cataphracts.
I like Techno figures from pendraken because the originality of the concepts. The sculpt is not bad but not als superb.
I like Pendraken old range of fantasy because its concept and they are a little bulky and sometimes awkward figures but once pained they fit well in the table.
I like Colin Grayson Games workshop 10mm warmaster (in example chaos, SoC, most of the oop, araby and contribution of Empire) because the sculpt is awesome and full of character.
I like Dave Andews workshop 10mm warmaster (in example Bretonians) because they have a nice and beutiful design, very neaty.
I like Steve Barber for the proportion of his figures.
I like ?? warrior miniatures not for the scultping but for the concept and prices (as they are cheap they are compensate).
I like TB line minitures for their cavalries
I like Mark Copplestone figures becasue the style of sculpting is superb, proportion, poses, details and concept.

And now something not very polite, which I do not like (just my personal opinion):
I do not like magister millitum (one of this two scultpors, can't remember his name now) because his figures are a little big head, simple style and even they have plenty details, they poses are a little bit flat and simple.
I do not like Pendraken horses. It seems to me like big dogs and poses with no dinamic attitutud.
I do not like Adler figures because they are a little big headed with slim bodies, even the poses are correct.
I do not like Kallistra historical range because they are more 12-14mm.

5. I am not really concern with the size of the figure. This issue is common drawback that customers see. And I was really concern in the past with this problem. But I realize that when you paint and base your figures, then you have a unit and everything in 10mm aprox fit great in the table. Even I mix irregular and GW in the same base and works great for me.
I only find Kallistra historical out of range. Except this I am not worried if the GW cavalry are oversiezed or stever barber infantery are slimmer then GW, or irregular has small or more proportional heads... they really fit well once painted.

6. What will be great for me is having an expand rule for warmaster (fantasy or historical) as fanmade. Maybe the warmaster test team around here would be the most qualificated people to build an armylist that fit the new range.
Making a list for warmaster is simple. But making a blance, fun and good with the internal or deep phylosopy of warmaster is not so easy.
I have seen (and even made) a lot of fun list for warmaster that do not fit with the simple and contundent beauty of warmaster. As Rick priestly said in an interview (somthing like this): he just spend hours and hours ripping details from WHF to get the essence of the game and transport to a large battle game with simple rules. And the fans start to adding all of those details he work hard to ripped off.
So, the answer is: I would like to see a new armylist for warmaster system (not necessarly in GW trakemark world but fantasy setting). But with the support of warmaster team test or maybe Lex supervision.

7. A lot of people with 10mm historical warmaster figures are moving on to Hail ceaser and Warlord games (as rick priestly is now creating this rulesets). Time will decide if they keep this rulesets, return to warmaster or move on to a new system.
Now the overview is this (as I see) GW remove/kills WMA WMMM and WHA, and Warlord (Mr.P.) is going to launch a sci fi and fantasy ruleboook... Interesting, let's see what happens. I only know that warmaster will be there for me.

10mm is also very played for HOTT and DBM  and DBA players, with can create a lot of armies with very few figures. And they have some extravagant nice armies, as they need few element to complete and finish an army.

10mm is also used for Two hours wargame (THW) players, sometime with individual figures or in bases (rally around the king).

Some Impetus players and Field of glory also use 10mm. But i do not think they are Legion.

There are a plenty of 10mm historical customers/gamers focused in napoleonic, XVIII century, and WWII out there. They use Flame of wars, blitzkrieg command variants, lilly banner, and a plenty of rulesets unkown to me.

- Sorry for my spelling and grammar -

[docdom]

I haven't tried any different 10mm minis mostly because I like the GW ones best. About other ranges I dont like their proportions and size compared to the GW range. Also they don't have the GW look. For example the high elves of other ranges look quite boring compared to the "cool" look of the silver helms. Also the empire troops are kind of special. The other ranges' human infantry look pretty much generic or historic/medieval. So it's also the special GW design and warhammer background what makes these units "better" looking. Maybe there are some exceptions like copplestone and a few I dont remember. That's mostly because the proportions look right to me and the poses are dynamic. (e.g. horse tribe cavalry)
I would prefer close combat infantry mounted on strips as this gives more of a packed regiment look. Like the spearmen or the helbardiers already available. Six single minis in a row would be difficult.

[Colonel Kane]

Alright here's my two cents worth of comment.

I voted for generic fantasy armies, monsters and a complete range for a new setting.

I voted generic armies simplily you might sell more that way.
Monsters, Well we can always use more monsters.
My main vote lies with a complete new range for a new setting.  My reason in simple.... ##### GW.  I do not buy from them anymore. Course I don't buy from anybody right now. Now mostly that's because money is tight and in the words of my wife, we can't afford your stuff. (parpharsed for the kiddies) I use counters for all my games, when I do play. Which is why I don't buy anything other than books off e bay. No one plays my games that life close.  I still play Warmaster, WFB, and Man O War using a different setting of my own.