Time limit for tournament games?

[Jo]

Hi there,

Somewhere in September we will be running a small mini tournament of warmaster in our small gaming community. I was wondering whether somebody could give some reasonable point value vs maximum time limit guidelines.

I do assume that in tournament play there is usually some time limit involved, right?

We will have about 8 people attending I presume and we would like to get a "winner" at the end of the day. We foresee time from about 10 till 18 so 8 hours (but we would like to get some time to eat of course).

I have seen the EuroGT warmaster rules, I guess this is sufficient for some variation? Are there specific requirements for terrain in these events?

Other suggestions are always welcome.

Thanks in advance,

Jo

[Lex]

We will have about 8 people attending I presume and we would like to get a "winner" at the end of the day. We foresee time from about 10 till 18 so 8 hours (but we would like to get some time to eat of course).

Jo,  for event games, like EuroGT I would aim at min/max 2k, but actual lists at around 1750 or 1800 points. Possibily you might set the basic army lower, at, say, 1250 points and allow for a "sideboard" of 250 / 500 / 750 points to allow players some consideration for adjustment during the event.

Assuming that you have preset terrain on the tables and rus all players thought particulars allow them to opt their battlasize on their own experience and aim at 3 rounds of 2.5 hours. DONT fall in the trap of setting limited turns on your batlles, as there are plenty players that might spent some time to get in position to initiate contact....   

I have seen the EuroGT warmaster rules, I guess this is sufficient for some variation? Are there specific requirements for terrain in these events?

plenty of terrain on the tables is a good thing. EuroGT rules will be OK to use, and there are several other options if you want to explore. What may make sense is to theme some terrain/tables for specific scenarios and eg. have a table where one player is defending, just using 1250 points, but using defended positions, and the attackers take a full 2000 pts list.

[Bel]

Yeah, 2,5 hours per game/round for 2000 pts armies. This means the gameday will take at least 9-10 hours.
For example:
9.30-10.00 - start, registration etc.
10.00 - 1st round
12.30-13.00 - break
13.00-15.30 - 2nd round
15.30-16.30 - dinner break
16.30-19.00 - 3nd round
19.00-19.30 - rewarding etc, the end.

You may decrease the time of breaks down to 15 min and dinner time to 30 min as the real state of things allows.

[Lex]

Presetting the terrain on the tables, making sure all the players lists are handed in and checked before the event and that all the specific event rules are known, as well as predefining the first round (both in matching up players AND assigning tables will help a lot too!

Dinnerbreak (if any) we would normally do after round 3....   but stuff like that depends on availability of food/beverage at the venue AND on the organiser/veneu allowing food @ tables.

[calmacil]

I was going to ask a similar question regarding max time limit and warmaster games.

We have one player in our games that's very slow, we've not said anything for about a year or so, but it does mean we can't finish many of our games.
For example, the last game we had it took him 1 hr 30mins just to deploy .... then our 4 player game with 2,000 points each took 6 hours (and it was over by turn 3) Fair enough we were snacking, chatting and having a laugh. But it was me making the tea and getting the snacks. 


I'm thinking of introducing a time limit. My question is, what's the best method for a warmaster game?
Either;
a) max of 15 mins per turn (this adds up to a 3 hour game in 6 turns ...... 12 turns total from each side)
b) there's a cut off time at the end of the game.   Once 3 hours is reached = end of game


The first option is similar to blood bowl, once the alarm goes off your turn is over. The only problem i can forsee is when your opponent is involved in the combats, he could delay your turn. So i'd consider pausing the countdown timer.

[Lex]

Most of the time "slow"  play tends to happen during Command/Movement with people rethinking themselves and fideling with the tapemeasures to make possition.

Combat is much harder to "time", as there are loads of factors influencing it.

I suggest you set timelimit on the Command/movement, restrict it per the number of characters or whatever else you deem fair.

The other thing to speed up, is eg. to have the opponent "help" positioning stuff, like charges and pursuit, as that all is fairly mechanical........

and have the players use vectored movement, instead of fiddling with bendy tapemeasures.....

[Jo]

Thanks for the useful tips.

Do you guys have some short list with balanced scenarios that you can use at this kind of event? Then I don't have to pre-test the battles up front.

Thanks in advance.

For the slow players: did you talk to the person in question yet? He might not be aware of his slowness. I effectively solved the issue by using a chess clock in a few games (I wasn't the fastest player myself). We didn't put any limit on there, just mentioned it was for measuring how much time was spent. And that already solved the problem - no more need for chess clocks any more now!

[Lex]

Assuming you do 3 rounds of battle ?

1 round:
Meeting engagement.
As I suggested earlier, have players make a basic armylist (eg. 1250 pts) and 3x 250 pts  sideboard. Nominate 2 parts of sideboard as Vanguard.
At start of game only Van is placed on table in opposite corners, from start of 2de turn allow players to deploy additional Brigades (one on the short side and one on the long side from the perspective of the corner of original set-up.

2 round:
1st round losers play a defend you homes game.
Played in the LENGTH of the table.
Place an area (30x30 cm) of buildings or other suitable markers one third in from a short edge of the table. Defender can opt to play his BASE list (1250 pts) and have one sideboard as reserves. To compensate any or all of his infantry and artillery/machines can start the game in defended position (use markers as appropriate). Defenders units in the "village"  are always considered to be defended, except when falling back from combat. Visibility in village is deemed to be 8 cm, Cavalry/flyers CAn enter and fight in village but will NOT be able to "disengage"
Attacker plays full list. Defender deploy first, attacker deploy second and go first. reserves can enter on any table edge automatically AFTER and attackers unit enters/attacks the "village".
Attacker (auto) wins when Defender has no units in the village and attacker has at least one full unit in. Any and all units (of both sides) in the village at the end of battle give appropriate VP to their OWNING player.

Round 3:
Match up winners/losers of round 1&2 and replay the round 2 scenario with players in opposite roles as 2de round.
Standard battle for the other combinations, use 1-3 objectives on the table for extra VP.


BTW...  assuming event in (or near) Antwerp and a workable date, I might come over and help out (as neutral player, or natural disaster    )

[spiritusXmachina]

Concerning time management. There were some good points made already and it's right that the phase where a player could be responsible for stalling is the order phase (but even that depends upon the breakpoint a bit - A Chaos army with 18 units is faster to command than a skeleton or orc army with 28!). The real time consumer still is the combat phase. Big clashes need big time (and the players cannot dash that too much). And you cannot put that in a tournament time-frame, because some battles have their first combat engagements in turn 2 - some in turn 4.

- Less than 2000 pts is a good idea like Lex said already. If you'd go for 1500pts allow the players to take min for 1000pts armies and the max for 2000 as some armies are a bit tight on characters (and it gives more freedom when doing the army list)
- I would also say that your time schedule is too tight. I would more go for 10 hours if you want it comfortable including a lunch break.
- You only have 8 players, so if you have a bit time for organising look around how the battles go and set the time frame flexible. If it's only one game that stalls, press the players - if all four games are still in turn three after 2,5 hrs you might want to extend the games.
- It's important you tell the players 45 minutes (about the time needed closing this and beginning another turn) before you want to close the tournament round. So they can decide if they 'd close the game immediately (if one player would be one turn ahead when gaming on) or if they press their game a little.
- Scenarios are great. But another way is to set up tables with fixed very different terrain. I.e. I used to set up a desert table with mostly some hills only, a jungle table with lots of woods, a king of the hill table with a big hill in the middle, and a river table. Those tables automatically result in very different game play. But be careful to make it balanced over all and be careful that the players go through a good mix of tables so that no (for example Chaos) player has three games on the desert table.

Greetings,
Gerald