(WM) 2000 Point Lizardman Force

[frogbear]

Hi All

I have recently been taking a Lizardman force and the past 2 games I have lost.

The first was vs Skaven and this was a close game. The 2nd was vs Dark Elves and I lost convincingly.

I put it down more to the Genral (me) rather than the force however it did get me thinking what people take in a Lizardman force.

Here is the force I have taken in the past 2 games:



Warmaster Army Selector
Lizardmen Army, 2000 points
Warmaster Armies
----------------------------------------------------------------
- 4 Skinks
- 4 Saurus
- 2 Salamanders
- 2 Kroxigor
- 3 Cold One Riders
- 1 Terradons
- 1 Stegadon
- 1 Slann Mage Palanquin
- 2 Saurus Hero
-- 1 Sword of Destruction
- 3 Skink Hero
- 2 Skink Shaman
-- 1 Scroll of Dispelling
----------------------------------------------------------------
2000 - 15/8

I Brigade 'like units' with 'like units' so as not to have Saurus Warriors running off due to Skink Losses.

Both games I have been at fault as I moved the skinks up to be charged with no other plan of followup by other units - silly I know - I put it down to being too tired by the end of the night.

I also lose the Terradons early as I fly them up at the opponent's back line and somehow they keep managing to make leadership rolls at -2 to charge them.

I have not been making good use of terrain as I forgot all about them ignoring LD penalties due to dense terrain.

I am thinking moving the skinks up with the Saurus Warriors 10cm behind and using the Kroxigors and Steg on one flank, and the Cold One riders on the other flank.

Thoughts?
What line up would you use for a 2000 point force?
What set ups do you use to start the battle?

[Lex]

Code: [Select]

Warmaster Army Selector
Lizardmen Army, 1985 points
Warmaster Armies
----------------------------------------------------------------
 280 -  8 Skinks
 300 -  4 Saurus
 220 -  2 Temple Guard
 100 -  4 Salamanders
 540 -  4 Kroxigor
  95 -  1 Slann Mage Palanquin
 110 -  1 Saurus Hero
     -  1 Carnosaur (65)
 280 -  4 Skink Hero
  60 -  2 Skink Shaman
----------------------------------------------------------------
1985 - 18/9
Brigades

Mixed 2x

1 Skinks
2 Saurus
1 Kroxigor

Skirmishers/flankers

4x Skinks argumented with Salamanders, you could elect to split these 2 and 2 and add the remaining skinks

Heavies

2x Krox + templeguards

Attach Terror where needed.

Drop 2 Skink heroes if you feel comfy and swap in a unit of Cold Ones, as reserve

As an all infantry force you will need to make use of terrain (which this army is very good at) and move coherent (which this army is even better at !!)

Your argumented Skinks will cause headaches in save 5+ and 6+ troops, softening them up for your H2H troops.

[frogbear]

That's a different take I did not think of.

Looks to be quite good.

In regards to this;

Mixed 2x
1 Skinks
2 Saurus
1 Kroxigor

Do you keep each unit in columns or as rows?
If in rows, what is the order front to back?
If in colums, are you not worried about being charged? I can see the skinks being used by the opponent for the unit to place the wounds on to win the combat?

Still getting to grips with good strategy within Warmaster so please excuse the questions 

[Claus]

My approach would be following one

1 Slann Mage
3 Skink Heros
2 Skink Shaman + 1 Ring of Magic
4 Skink units
8 Saurus Units
1 Kroxigor Units
4 Cold One Rider Units
2 Terradon Units

This is a base list that you easily can vary.

Skip 1 Cold on rider unit and tak a Saurus Hero + Carnosaur instead....etc.

I personaly like to play with a lot of Saurus Units and there are a lot of other variations you could do and there is only one basic rule to consider. Due to "Cold Blouded" rule you need to keep your army together and don´t spread it over the whoel gaming table

Regards
Claus

[Lex]

Do you keep each unit in columns or as rows?
If in rows, what is the order front to back?
If in colums, are you not worried about being charged? I can see the skinks being used by the opponent for the unit to place the wounds on to win the combat?

Still getting to grips with good strategy within Warmaster so please excuse the questions 

Formation depends on situation, but remember that Skinks Shoot and S&S from all edges. If you do put them in column, and are facing armoured cav on one flank then add the salamanders to these skinks instead of the skirmishers. the Salamander goes in the frontline, the skinks go behind (and in line with the SHORT edge facing "forward" behind the salamander. ANYTHING comming near that flank will suffer ...

When charging in, you detach the Skinks to get into position to shoot secondrankers and hope to shift them (anything other then multiples of 4 cm will break formation on your opponent

[frogbear]

I have secured a game for tomorrow but I am quite a few units short of the armies offered here by Lex and Claus.

The best I can do is to take the below army.

The units I have left over are 2x Terradon, 2x Cold One Riders and another Stegadon.

Any ideas on whether the below is the best for the collection or whether I should swap something out?


Warmaster Army Selector
Lizardmen Army, 2000 points
Warmaster Armies
----------------------------------------------------------------
4 Skinks
- 3 Salamanders
4 Saurus
- 1 Sword of Destruction
- 1 Sword of Might
1 Temple Guard
- 1 Banner of Shielding
2 Kroxigor
2 Cold One Riders
1 Stegadon
1 Slann Mage Palanquin
- 1 Rod of Repetition
1 Saurus Hero
- 1 Carnosaur
3 Skink Hero
2 Skink Shaman
- 1 Scroll of Dispelling
----------------------------------------------------------------
2000 - 14/7

The formations will be

- 2 Brigades of Skinks (front row) and Saurus x2 + Kroxigor (in colums)
- Cold One Riders on one flank
- Skinks x2 and Stegadon on another flank (skinks to seperate before any combat)
- Temple Guard on a flank or rear where required
- Saurus Hero as required

I was considering the Stegadon to come up the middle however I feel it should be more effective on a flank

I am going to be using (if possible) many of the ideas as expressed in Micro Tactics by Mike Headden (Warmaster Mag 20) and Lex as per this thread. 

[frogbear]

Had the game today. Battle report to come.

Here is the list my opponent took:


Warmaster Army Selector
Skaven Army, 2000 points
Warmaster Armies
----------------------------------------------------------------
4 Clanrats
4 Stormvermin
2 Plague Monks
4 Rat Swarms
4 Rat Ogres
- 1 Sword of Fate
3 Warp Lightning Cannon
2 Doom Wheel
1 Screaming Bell
1 Grey Seer
- Sceptre of Sovereignty
2 Hero
2 Warlock
- 1 Ring of Magic
- 1 Scroll of Dispelling
----------------------------------------------------------------
2000 - 24/12


My only change was regarding this:

- Skinks x2 and Stegadon on another flank (skinks to seperate before any combat)
- Temple Guard on a flank or rear where required

I placed the Temple Guard with the skinks (due to the extra Salamander I had) and the Steg was by himself

[frogbear]

The first turn saw my force move its right flank however the whole left flank failed to move.

As it was only the first turn I was not too concerned and I had taken part of the forest in front


My opponent on the other hand (known to be in the favour of the dice gods) managed to move the Skaven Horde up. The picture below will also show that I am missing some cav on the left side - that is due to a skitter-leaping wizard who cast a warp lightning on a unit killing a stand! I decided to show the little upstart what his cold-one friends thought of that. The opponent was now down one wizard - First blood to the Lizardmen!
http://www.wargamer.com.au/warmaster/games/06112012/LizVSkav3.JPG

Due to the forest blocking the line of sight, the skaven had nothing to shoot at in the first or send turns. My wizards however came back at the Warp Lightning Cannons and were able to disrupt that little Brigade of courage (left approach at the base of the hill). By that time the rest of the army had moved forward

[frogbear]

On my right the Plague Monks and Rat Ogres charged the Cold One Cavalry and after a few rounds they came to a draw and both bounced back. This was bad for the units as they were far from the leadership bubble of the bell. The lizardmen were pleased asthey had not as yet dropped a full unit and the Cold One Cav could use their next initiative move to fall back 3D6 to save themselves.

As you can see the skaven were starting to overeach as the bell and supporting storm Vermin were still stuck in the feilds trying to un-bog the Screaming Bell at the edge 


In the next turen I used the initiative on the Stegadonm to move in front of the Plague monks (they were not in charge view) to protect the Cold One Cav that could not fall back far enough. This was a risk but one that turned out to be a game winner IMO.

On the left (not visible) the Skinks used initiative to flank the Kroxigors that were supporting the Skaven Clan Rats while the Temple Guard initiative charged into the Rats. The skink archers combined with the Slann Mage managed 5 wounds on the Kroxigors, not only breaking their supporting ranks, but also seeing them flee 24cm (more than their move) and leaving the battle altogether. The Temple Guard then mopped up losing a stand themselves and then falling back into position. 

[frogbear]

This turn the skaven player was caught out. The Plague bearers had to initiative charge the Stegadon due to Frenzy and the Rat Ogres decided to use initiativbe to set up a next turn charge.

Two rat swarms charged in on the flanks of the skinks to my left. A Doom Wheel smashed into my skinks on the right


The skinks on both flanks died leaving the doom wheel unscathed and 1 stand left of one of the units of Swarms (so unlucky!). In retaliation The Stegadon initiative charged the Plagues Censor Bearers. Saurus Warriors initiative charged the Rat Ogres. After the Stegadon mopped up, he moved to within 1cm of the Rat Ogres. The eventual battle from the Saurus Warriors (they lost a stand!) with the help of the Carnosaur and hero. pushed the Kroxigors into the Steg and they were defeated.



With only 3 more units to lose himself to losing the game, the Skaven saw that he needed to destroy 5 units in one turn. With a masterful display of low dice rolling on leadership, the bell units moved up the table (as displayed above)

[frogbear]

The Skaven went all out and the below picture will show the Saurus Warriors and Kroxigors under siege by no less than 4 units of Storm Vermin with a support from the clan Rats.

The Skinks on the left were also under siege, and on the far left (unseen) the last two stands of Temple Guard are fighting a desperate battle against a unit of Rat Ogres.

On my right, clan Slaves and the Doom Wheel also charge into the Saurus and Carnosaur unit. This was a massive play.


Here is a view supplied by Zeppelin View


I was really relying on my defended position to help me in this combat

[frogbear]

The skinks on the left died

The Saurus and Carnosaur concentrated on the Clan Slaves and forced the opponent into retreat. The followup saw the Doom Wheel destroyed all for no loss to the Saureus Warriors.

The cdefended combat in the forest was drawn out and before both units dying, the Kroxigors managed to badly maul 2 units to one stand each.

The Skaven had failed by 2 units.

My next turn saw the Steggadon, remains of the Cold One Cav, and Saurus Warriors supported by the Carnosaur crash through the forest to eliminate the two stands needed to force the break points.


Lizardmen had won the day!  Yay!    

[frogbear]

I am not sure on the points but from what I work out for units destroyed, the score was:

Lizardmen: 1155 points
Skaven: 425 points

[Lex]

Nice....

1 point I picked up (other then your tendency to swap the Kroxigors with RatOgres  )

Cold One Cav could use their next initiative move to fall back 3D6 to save themselves.

An initiative move away from the enemy is a normal move, not a 3d6 one !!  3D6 Fallback is only used as a result from a combat resolution.

[frogbear]

Ah! Good pick up. That would have been so much better than the 9cm they rolled.

Also Monsters cannot go in forests. That combat we did not do as i reached the break limit so all good.

Your assistance with tactics was really appreciated. I was very much in control throughout the game which was a good feeling.