Flyers and terrain

[Edmund2011]

Hi,

According to rules:

- Monsters can't move into or over features except hills, bridges, shallow rivers and low obstacles.
- Flying units can't move into impassable to infntery and woods.

Can a unit of Harpies or Carrion enter a ruin, village or other dense terrain?

I think no, because they are Monsters, but that question appeared last day in our group, and I would like to double-check. Dogs of War Birdmen could enter in the dense terrain because they are Infantery.

Same question for Dwarf Gyrocopter. Being a Machine it should not be able to finish movement in dense terrain. Is that right?

Thanks!

[Big Red]

From the Living Rule Book:

(p24) Cavalry and monsters can’t move into or over terrain features on the battlefield except for hills, bridges, shallow fordable rivers and low obstacles (hedges, walls, fences or ditches, for example).
... I would say NO.

(p85) The Gyrocopter is a flying machine, so all the usual flying rules apply (see Flying Units p.59-61). 
.... So, NO, unless there is a designated area e.g. the market square (agreed b/w players) that is "open" and the gyrocopter can land there.

[Claus]

If your infantry units can enter the terrain the flying units can also...exception are woods.

But we generaly allways define this before the beginning of the game. It´s allways better to do this way before having surprise during the game.

Regards
Claus

[frogbear]

From the Living Rule Book:

(p24) Cavalry and monsters can’t move into or over terrain features on the battlefield except for hills, bridges, shallow fordable rivers and low obstacles (hedges, walls, fences or ditches, for example).
... I would say NO.

I would think it very 'uncinematic' to prevent a giant or flying creatures in amongst ruins or a village.

Take a look at the movie Van Helsing for an example of 'harpies' attacking a village. Why would you not allow such attacks?

[Edmund2011]

No, Monsters can not enter dense terrain. They can attack it from the outside, but they can not enter in it.

I think I understand now. Flyer rules only talk about woods, because they cover also Characters mounted on Flying Creatures.

- Character on griffon: can enter dense terrain, can not enter woods.
- Birdmen: can enter dense terrain, can not enter woods.
- Harpies: can not enter dense terrain, can not enter woods.
- Gyrocopter: can not enter dense terrain, can not enter woods.

[Bel]

If your infantry units can enter the terrain the flying units can also...exception are woods.

But we generaly allways define this before the beginning of the game. It´s allways better to do this way before having surprise during the game.

+1.

IIRC there was a description of a village (number of buildings/number of ruins) that has to be crossed by the street/road that allows the moving of at least one stand (ie 2-2,5cm wide). So any unit can move along the road and get into contact with a buildings (and obviously can't enter it).

As for me - I use the villages etc. made in this way (very useful).

[Big Red]

I would think it very 'uncinematic' to prevent a giant or flying creatures in amongst ruins or a village.

Take a look at the movie Van Helsing for an example of 'harpies' attacking a village. Why would you not allow such attacks?

Films are very different to Warmaster.  I haven't seen the Living Rulebook for the movie Van Helsing and I'm pretty sure I didn't see the characters in the film rolling dice to see if they hit an enemy.   

The rules are there and have probably been discussed and thrashed around well and truly before being finalised.  However, agreeing to certain rule changes or house rules with your opponenet before the game starts can always be done.

[Lex]

Actualy flyers rules could do with some clarification and in some areas expansion. Rick did deliberatly change the rules for flyers in BoFA to allow them to hover (eg.)

[frogbear]

Quick! Hide in the village of thatched houses. That should protect us from the rampaging Stegadon. There is no way he could knock down a thatched hut     

Big Giant Birds are coming to get us! No don't worry. Just stay behind this white picket fence. They cannot possibly get us if we stay behind that   

I guess house rules dependant on the tables and scenario are best....

[Getlord]

Although flyers can move over all kinds of terrain they
cannot end their move in any kind of terrain that
would be impassable to infantry, or over woods. The
restriction for woods is because we imagine it is
practically impossible for flyers to operate effectively
amongst trees. The general restriction for other kinds
of impassable terrain is because we have chosen to
treat flyers as ‘hopping’ from position to position
rather than remaining airborne from move to move.

In my opinion harpies however being monsters but primary flyers can enter the ruins (as infantry also can).

[honestmistake]

my 2 cents.... Flyers entering dense terrain like swamps, corn fields, rockey ground or other 'open' dense terrain  seems perfectly reasonable. Urban areas and ruins on the other hand would (to me) seem much more circumstantial. If the area in question is representing the front edges of a town or elabotate stonehenge then probably not as their will not be room for wings/rotors.. if its a sparsely populated mud hut collection or a grave yard full of broken stones and the occassional mausoleum them i see no reason why not. Really would depend on the scenery and players mutual agreement before play commenced.

[jchaos79]

In my opinion harpies however being monsters but primary flyers can enter the ruins (as infantry also can).

but flyers is not a type of troop, and terrain depends on the type of troop... am I right?

[Big Red]

but flyers is not a type of troop, and terrain depends on the type of troop... am I right?

You are very correct.  Terrain restrictions are placed on troop types  - Infantry, cavalry, chariots, artillery, monsters and machines - and then some restrictions come about due to special rules for some of those troop types so specified e.g. flying or monstrous mounts that can fly.

[Edmund2011]

Yes, the troop type is what determines if the unit can enter a terrain feature or not.

Besides that, flyers can not enter woods.

[Getlord]

You convinced me. I could play both ways with the harpies, however I could not with the dragon rider. Therefore I think I was wrong and to stay aligned I would not allow harpies enter ruins as well.