Dwarf Gyrocopter

[Jurisch]

Hello,

While playing my dwarf army I had a situation my gyro was charged within the flank and hasn't line of sight for stand and shoot. This meant no attacks versus the attacking unit which gives no chance to win the fight. This makes the gyro very unattractive comparing with its cost.

I think it would be more attractive to have a change to the army list:

Giving the gyro (as a flying small gun) a 360 degree sight the gyro would be a rather better option to be used by the Dwarf generals.

Any thoughts from your side?

Cheers,

Jurisch

[Guthwine]

The gyro sadly is a very useless machine (bad save/bad damage output/high cost). Its only real function is as a roadblock for enemy units that get driven into it.

There would be multiple ways to make it better, giving it a 4+ save, making it always count as defended and so on....

I would love to see the gyro with a short range cannon on it. Just like a flying cannon but with a range of 30cm. The dream is that one day opponents will fear the gyro and not go "oh cool, a gyro, this way I get the low breakpoint even easier!"

[Lex]

The gyro can be used to good effect to break up support, force command roll penalties, or put in a bit extra firepower to turn and destroy a unit, but.....

it will need to be handled with care, so no "zipping around the frontlines"

[Jurisch]

With the 360 degrees sight it would make it more attractive without a necessary to change its points. Would recommend a  change in cost.

[Guthwine]

The gyro can be used to good effect to break up support, force command roll penalties, or put in a bit extra firepower to turn and destroy a unit, but.....

it will need to be handled with care, so no "zipping around the frontlines"

That may be true, but 15 extra points can buy a unit of handgunners and if they are in terrain they are way more valuable than the gyro at 75 points. Even Slayers would be more efficient, at least to dont give your opponent victory points.

Also to give command roll penalties you have to be within 20cm of something that usually means that enemy cavalry will crush the gyro next turn.
Its really more of a liability than an addition to the army.

[spiritusXmachina]

1) Units always have at least 1 attack. That was one of the proposals the testplayers group agreed last time we discussed the rules. I don't know how official those changes were but we are playing according this rules in tournament (not that this would have saved the Gyro of course :-)

2) One stand units are never as efficient as standard units. Look at the Steam Tank, Bone Giant, Sphinx, Chaos Spawn. The Cost/Attack/Hit Points ratio is never as good. That's part of the philosophy. But beyond that changes are of course discussable.

The Gyro is no flying tank, there's a good reason why it uses a steam cannon (weight?) and to give him a 4+sv or to even make him defended is imo not the way. But it could be interesting to just give him a few more hit points so his chances to survive the first round of combat is a bit higher. And as a flyer (with a good 5+sv) that could save his life. 4 Hit points should not be any problem, 6 maybe would be a bit daring. Opinions?

Greetings,
Gerald

[Guthwine]

4 hit points wont help much. Attacker gets 12 attacks, 6 of them hit => with a 5+ save 4 hits are scored.

+Terror causing in combat might help. After all such a machine must be scary in a medieval setting.

Edit: Or give it a special rule: *Boom goes the dynamite: If the gyrocopter is destroyed it explodes in a huge blast, all units in contact get d6 hits, no armor save allowed.

[honestmistake]

It's 75pts for a flying artillery buster (that gives a -1 save)... I don't really think it needs much change. I do however think that the 360 degree fire arc would be a nice addition, possibly with only a 15cm range though.
As for the idea of it causing terror... I just can't see any good reason at all for that, even basic undead skeletons would be far more scary!

[Guthwine]

Shouldnt an artillery buster be able to bust artillery? A lucky roll will take out one stand, and that only if the opponent doesnt cover his artilley.

Just compare it to other flyers, they are equally pricy but get tripple the hit points thanks to the 3 stands and often an equal save.  Araby even get 6 shots per unit which can be brigaded for a total of 12 shots.

Edit: The fact remains, that the gyro has no place in a competitive army list. Its for fun games where efficiency isnt an issue.

Also when you cut the range to 15cm you might as well take if off the army selection imho.

[spiritusXmachina]

I agree, 15cm reach would make it totally useless imo.

[Jurisch]

Compared with other flyers you need to raise the base numbers per unit to 2 and a 360 degree sight. I think then it makes them balanced.

[Haranin]

Its an easy break point for the enemy to pick up

[honestmistake]

I've never seen them played independently but even so I don't think they should made into bigger units at this cost.  As I see it, the gyrocopter isn't really an assault unit, its main purpose is too drop in and exploit/create weakness in the enemy formation by drive back or by landing behind units you expect to push back.
While I do think the 360 fire arc is worth consideration I think the real answer is don't land em where cavalry can do this 

[Guthwine]

I've never seen them played independently but even so I don't think they should made into bigger units at this cost.

You have to play them independently because you cant brigade them. Which means issuing an extra order and even then, youll only make 3 hits on average, so dumping 150 into destroying half a cannon hardly seems worth it.

... I think the real answer is don't land em where cavalry can do this

The gyro has a range of 30cm, just like cavalry, so the real answer should be, dont use them when your enemy has cavalry, shouldnt it? I am sure the gyro is quite efficient when you play against dwarves.

[honestmistake]

Well I mostly play Empire and we don't even get a flyer 

 However to answer your point about cavalry charge range.... fear of your 75 point gyro copter is going to make me dedicate significant numbers of troops to defending my artillery/flanks and generally restrict my movement even without it coming near me. If i leave cavalry to do this it becomes even more expensive, so yes, that 75 point Gyrocopter might be weak in combat  but the chaos it can cause means that an opponent is forced to deploy and move his entire army in a very different manner than if you didn't have it (them). Add to that the fact that (if not destroyed) it can't be pursued and i think you may be under-estimating it's value.

I think it all boils down to how it is used... my opponents tend to make great use of them in pairs to threaten  artillery or finish off wounded units. Given the strengths of the rest of the dwarf list I think a more powerful flyer would be extremely unfair.