Flankage: using non-standard bases.

[Carrington]

I'm a little neurotic about making figures rank up on a base (and actually contacting enemy bases in combat).

So I'm considering using 40x30 bases for some of the infantry that need a little extra space; vis. elf/undead archers, elf-spearmen (repurposed from the chariot-spearmen).

To what extent do you think flouting the rules in this way would be a problem for game play?

[Lex]

as long as you keep FRONTAGE the same you are doing OK, as in most cases that is determinant for defining combat engagement, and messing with the frontage could result in gaining a "bonus"in each and every combat engagement and thus an unfair advantage.

having slightly deeper stands can to some extend work against you, as that part normaly wont come in play unless somebody flanked you and/or is pursuing. In that case a bigger stand could result in you opponent being able to get more of his stands into combat.

IF you want to go with bigger bases from the esthetic point of view, just adding half a centimeter might be better (40x25 for inf, 20x45 for lengthbased).

[spiritusXmachina]

I chose "Ach" (in spite the fact that the options were a bit manipulative )

Although most changes would result in disadvantages mainly on your side there are some problems I would see in game play.

1) When attacking the rulebook tells you to bring all stands (with enough movement) in contact with the attacked unit. A normal unit would have 3 stands - yours would'nt.

2) When your unit would be attacked in the flank it would be unhandy to tell which stand touches which.

3) You would easily give away flexibility for looks. There's not only the column when placing units - many infantry units are placed in line. Your line would be at least a bit shorter.
In some cases it would be harder for you to react to and move around terrain.

I am very sorry - but I would not even like to play against those units - because the smaller frontage would in fact falsify the attributes and the qualities a unit has (even if most negative effects were on your side).

The smallest defined "unit-cluster" there is is the 2x4 stand - and there's a reason for that.

Greetings,
Gerald

P.S.: I guess you are in fact aware that the attributes "attacks" and "wounds" defines the attacks and wounds of every single stand, are you?

[Lex]

I think he does NOT effect the frontage..... read OP again ...

[Carrington]

Yes, the idea would be that the impact of a larger stand would be on 'flankage,' not frontage.

And, yes, I would be using 3 40x30mm (25mm?) stands for a unit of archers, rather than 3 40x20 stands. The line would remain 120mm long, though the column would extend 90mm (or 75mm) instead of 60.

I'm actually hard put to see ways that a deeper stand would be anything but a disadvantage for the player using it -- there's not much benefit in covering extra depth.

[Lex]

Yes, the idea would be that the impact of a larger stand would be on 'flankage,' not frontage.

And, yes, I would be using 3 40x30mm (25mm?) stands for a unit of archers, rather than 3 40x20 stands. The line would remain 120mm long, though the column would extend 90mm (or 75mm) instead of 60.

I'm actually hard put to see ways that a deeper stand would be anything but a disadvantage for the player using it -- there's not much benefit in covering extra depth.

^^ correct, disadvantage is mostly on the player using

[jchaos79]

In my opinion, the system is made for the regular three bases, so I try to adjust the figures to the base, I think I should glue less figures or more.

When I started in miniatures wargames the basing was a pain for me... but then I discover warmaster... As the fighting unit is a base not the number of figures all the problems had gone for me just so happy, thanks Mr. Priestly, Lex and others.

So I think basing regular it is important.

My only exceptions are monsters, huge enough to a regular base. We try to play test gaming with the size of bigger base, but does not really work. Then we decide to paint in the bigger base some lines to delimit the regular base mesurement. So we use those mesurements to engange combat, and try to imagine the bigger part is "invisible" (it doesnt matter if you can not put other figures in the invisible part, just move it a little and it is a consensus between the two players that where the figures should be)

Because monsters are not very common It work for us.

That was my experience

[Carrington]

In my opinion, the system is made for the regular three bases, so I try to adjust the figures to the base, I think I should glue less figures or more.

... snip...
That was my experience

Agreed... the system is made for units of three bases with regular frontage.  (though, interestingly, WM Ancients has, for the most part, done away with the distinction between infantry and cavalry frontage).

My contention is that flankage is a good deal less important, only generating (minor) balance issues to the detriment of the player using larger flanked units -- e.g. it's easier/possible to hit one single unit in the flank.

Granted, I have thought about further heresies -- vis.  the Impetus system of one base per unit -- and I tend to think that such a system may be a good deal less fiddly (not to mention the fact that there's no real historical evidence that unit losses actually had an effect on unit frontage).  But I realize that that kind of system is not Warmaster.

[Guthwine]

...(not to mention the fact that there's no real historical evidence that unit losses actually had an effect on unit frontage)...

But one base per unit wouldnt change that, if they are in a line formation.

I would prefer to play against equally based armies, even if the opponent would have the disadvantage, but I think thats more a matter of taste to increase the depth of the stands than playability. 
But I also like that the standart cavalry in WMA is based like WM infantry but sadly it seems like I am the only one interested in Ancients in my area. 

[jchaos79]

but sadly it seems like I am the only one interested in Ancients in my area. 

Yep it is shame, it is real good game. lot of fun with historical flavour!