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Author Topic: General Question Thread  (Read 31067 times)

Offline Lex

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Re: General Question Thread
« Reply #30 on: September 13, 2013, 02:37:32 PM »
It looks like the first unit in did not center-2-center on their target? So the warriors would shift (probably to their left?) unless the terrain is impassable.

Then the TS coming in from the flank, depending on starting position would also need to center-2-center, as the second stand can not make contact I would probably have put it into support on their RIGHT flank, overrunning the general and forcing him to join a friendly unit

Offline Stormwind

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Re: General Question Thread
« Reply #31 on: September 13, 2013, 03:42:10 PM »
OK, so if the general was /forced/ into the unit - it would have to fight in the combat?  That would be OK.

Now - the dwarves obviously won - but I had no idea who was allowed to pursue in the combat.  Do the Elves just retreat as a single block backwards - and if so - would the flanking units have been allowd to pursue or only a single dwarven unit at the front?
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Offline Lex

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Re: General Question Thread
« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2013, 04:02:41 PM »
OK, so if the general was /forced/ into the unit - it would have to fight in the combat?  That would be OK.

Now - the dwarves obviously won - but I had no idea who was allowed to pursue in the combat.  Do the Elves just retreat as a single block backwards - and if so - would the flanking units have been allowd to pursue or only a single dwarven unit at the front?

As you say, this will be messy.... retreat is away from attackers, so the back-row would be moving to its left (possibly losing stands due to impossibele terrain) and then the fron row would be moving backwards, but only those stands that actually would have room to do so, others would be destroyed. So careful consideration on what stands to remove as casualties might be in order !

Offline Stormwind

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Re: General Question Thread
« Reply #33 on: September 13, 2013, 04:33:37 PM »
OK, yes this is complicated, ha ha.

Do the flanking unit stands get attacks against both spearmen and archers, or just the spearmen?
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Offline jchaos79

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Re: General Question Thread
« Reply #34 on: September 13, 2013, 09:18:51 PM »
Some aspect or comments about your picture.

1- The glorious charge of dwarf warriors:  As I see in the picture, two units of dwarves charge the spearmen, they have a wierd configuration than can be achived if the start the charge very far of the elves.... I mean:

When unit A of the dwarves charge they need to expand the battleline. To do so move the unit charging stand by stand with the obligation of expand the front of the enemy unit. The stand could not move more than his allowed movement. If and only if one stand has exceed its movement then could end the charge supporting his own unit mates, and then you get the configuration for the first unit of charging dwarveves in your picture. The one in the right hand of the picture I guess.

Then the unit B of dwarves can see the enemy and charge only reaching the enemy with one stand and completing the battleline.


If the first charge of dwarves warriors charge with his 3 stand withing the range of its movement, they have the obligation of fight in all the battleline of the enemies, negating the line of sight, and therefore the charge of the unit B of warriors. Anyway in this case, unit B could move to give support to unit A.


2- The charge of the troll slayers on the flank. The charge of the troll slayers should be against the archers or against the spearmen. Then center to center in the flank with the selected unit. In both cases, they accidentally come to combat with the other unit, so the troll slayers flank one stand of each unit (spearmen and archers).


3- The elves defense - The archers has the stand n shoot defence, but in this case, in my opinion, they should not benefit of it because all his front is blocked by the spearmen unit, so they do not have line of sight (LOS) to the troll slayers and therefore they can not use their reactive shoot.


4- The pursuit - Elves should retreat. Count how many enemies units are attacking in every escape direction. As two units of dwarf warriors are attacking from the front, the elves (two units as it is a multiple combat) should retreat backwards, and not going to the hills.

Anyway, in the hipotetical case that they retreat to the hills, If the hills are impasable the stands whichs "enter" in the impassable hills are removed.
If the hills are not impassable, the move to the top of the hills but they do not benefit the status of being defended, because they are being pursuit. Defended or fortified position only count when charge, not in the pursuit.

Talking about terrain, notice that cavalry or monster being charged on the top of the hill are not in defended status (they are not infantry)... but they are not in open, so they are hitted with 4+ but the attacker has not the +1 charging in open bonus.

5 -General on dragon- If enemies unit touch the general, it must go to a friendly unit within 30cm. Be aware that the elf player could choose the unit to attach the general within 30cm, it is not necessary the closer elf unit.


It is a post little bit dense, but hope it helps, :)

Offline Stormwind

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Re: General Question Thread
« Reply #35 on: October 19, 2013, 01:26:40 PM »
OK! Thanks for your answers.

One thing I am very confused about is - I can charge two different units into one enemy unit... But when I win and pursue, which unit do I pursue with? Can I pursue with both?
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Offline Lex

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Re: General Question Thread
« Reply #36 on: October 19, 2013, 02:14:22 PM »
OK! Thanks for your answers.

One thing I am very confused about is - I can charge two different units into one enemy unit... But when I win and pursue, which unit do I pursue with? Can I pursue with both?

When there is enough room to do so..... you should handle pursuit one unit at the time. WHen you strictly follow the rules then ANY stand already in contact with the FRONT of the retreating unit follows up directly forward WITHOUT changing relative position!!!!!  Remaining stand of the PURSUING unit are then placed into BASE contact with the retreating stand(s), with the note that there is NO obligation to max frontage in this case.

Depending on your actual configuration IF the second unit in the original combat CAN NOT reach the retreating unit it can not pursue.

Offline Stormwind

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Re: General Question Thread
« Reply #37 on: October 19, 2013, 03:56:46 PM »
OK - so please see a point of contention for me.

2 units of goblins.  One unit of my harpies.  First unit charges me, maximising frontage.  2nd unit, he claims is able to charge my flank.

I told him that it would be generous to call that taking the piss.
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Offline captPiett

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Re: General Question Thread
« Reply #38 on: October 19, 2013, 04:07:47 PM »
It depends. Was the closest stand of goblins the one that ended up in the center in that picture? You charge closest stand to closest stand, then maximize frontage by placing a stand on either side of the first one. Assuming that's how he did it, the the second unit of goblins can only see the flank, and can flank your unit of harpies. This is quite common and a way that players use the order of charging units to gain advantage in the ensuing combat phase.

If the closest stand was the one on the right, however, the other two stands should be on either side, and judging from the picture, obsure this harpies altogether and preventing the second goblin unit from charging them. Clear as mud?  :)

Offline Stormwind

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Re: General Question Thread
« Reply #39 on: October 19, 2013, 04:58:03 PM »
Blimey, OK - I think I'm understanding things better.

Maxmimising frontage is the key I get it.
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Offline jchaos79

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Re: General Question Thread
« Reply #40 on: October 19, 2013, 05:20:11 PM »
If 2 unit have line of sight and 4cm gap space then 2unit could attack harpies on the flank, because all the harpie's front is fighting.

If the second unit is the one on the top of the hill and is looking to the fight then yes, he could attach harpie's flank despite they are in the "front area".


If the second unit is the Kallistra gobbos, then no. Becuase they do not have line of sight (they are looking to the photographer) so they need an order to turn 180º (and I would positionte 1cm on the back of the harpies 1) and a second order to attack the flank/rear.


Offline Stormwind

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Re: General Question Thread
« Reply #41 on: October 19, 2013, 05:34:21 PM »
Thanks for your reply! It's certainly a LOT more liberal about charging than Warhammer is. =-P
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Offline Time of Madness

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Re: General Question Thread
« Reply #42 on: October 19, 2013, 05:38:51 PM »
QUESTION

General question regarding model/stand counts

How do people represent the following units

Empire Cannons - The blister comes with two cannons. Is a single stand with a cannon enough to represent 1 unit? Of should I be placing 2 stands (each with a cannon on it) to represent 1 unit

Araby Elephants - Again the blister comes with 2 elephants. Is 1 elephant on a single base enough to represent a single unit of Elephants?

There are many more examples of this in the game. How is everyone representing thier units?
Time of Madness

Offline Lex

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Re: General Question Thread
« Reply #43 on: October 19, 2013, 06:35:50 PM »
QUESTION

General question regarding model/stand counts

How do people represent the following units

Empire Cannons - The blister comes with two cannons. Is a single stand with a cannon enough to represent 1 unit? Of should I be placing 2 stands (each with a cannon on it) to represent 1 unit

you will definitely want TWO stands to represent that unit !! However........  if the second stand is oriented on the short side and represented the crew preparing and mybe a gambion or two, and you indicated it proxies the second cannon, then that would be OK for me. That is similar to the use of less archers or cavalry to represent "light" troops or dispersed formations....

as long as it is pointed out up front !

Note: the HELLBLASTER is a single stand unit

Quote

Araby Elephants - Again the blister comes with 2 elephants. Is 1 elephant on a single base enough to represent a single unit of Elephants?

There are many more examples of this in the game. How is everyone representing thier units?
Time of Madness
my bretonian squires are snipped and 3 horse to a stand, sometimes 4.
my goblins are a whishy whasy mix of snapped strips, I can hnestly say no two stands look the same....
my dwarf rangers are mostly put on individually
my skaven where all put into a big bowl and units are made to represent "rank" in the Warlord clans. Wealty units end up with more, better armed and armoured troops and standards on all stands, sme even sport a jezail or ratogre to argument their strength. Lower ranked clans have less standards, lesser waepons and often make up their numbers with ratswarms and sometimes are even forced to team up with a warpflame team
[spoiler]my dark elves/slaneesh............  [/spoiler]

Offline jchaos79

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Re: General Question Thread
« Reply #44 on: October 19, 2013, 08:37:09 PM »
@Time of madness.

In the armylist there is a column name size. It gives you the information about how many stands have the unit. Normally 3 stands per unit, but there are some units which have 2 stands (as the empire cannon) or 1 stand per unit as Tusk in Dogs of war armylist or sphinx in undead army, for example.