[WM Chaos Dwarfs]

[kyussinchains]

placeholder thread for discussion on chaos dwarfs

[fattdex]

Hi there,
I have only just rediscovered the specialist arms forum, so posting thi sup here.

I have begun to work on a Legion of Azghor army list, it can be found here

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B27Fszc83K8POTdYNmZWNlpjNDg/edit?usp=sharing

It is to be deigned to play in the style of the current official warhammer army. I have made a few revisions to it already limiting back the artillery to two pieces, points, clarifications, etc.
I hope the addition of the troop transport carriages is not too controversial for you.

I am working with Eureka Miniatures to add to their 10mm model range to support the units in the army and hopefully to replace some of their older offerings eventually, too (i will make a new modl thread).

Any discussion and feedback is appreciated (please move this post if it should be somewhere else)
-jb

[Stormwind]

Oh wow, this sounds really good - Eureka's Chaos Dwarves do look pretty tasty.  Having a full list would be fab to add some variety to WM.

[Bel]

hobgoblin wolf riders must have AS 6+.

[jchaos79]

Really interesting. Do you have any pics of 1000 pts configuration or a test 1000 list?

[Aldhick]

Does anyone now what was the original point in the rules for blunderbusses? I still can't understand how such weapon could be more effective in a column than in a line. Or I'm I missing something?

[honestmistake]

I assumed it was supposed to represent some sort of volley fire. didn't really make sense but was a nice mechanic

[honestmistake]

We've played a fair number of battles with the Chaos Dwarves recently and what started as a bit of a joke has turned into a firm house rule that really seems to work well. Basically we decided to allow the Death Rocket to fire on units it is being charged by but rather than roll normally it is considered to be a 'blundered' shot and must roll on the missfire chart to see what effect the shot will have 

[Geep]

Does anyone now what was the original point in the rules for blunderbusses? I still can't understand how such weapon could be more effective in a column than in a line. Or I'm I missing something?

Probably a bit old for an answer, but anyway...

I'd guess this is a throwback to the old Fantasy blunderbuss rules, where the strength of the shot was increased for every rank after the first (to represent them firing past each other and creating a thicker wall of flying metal). The scale of Warmaster makes the rule a little odd, but as Honestmistake says- it's a nice mechanic, and adds variety to the usual shooting set up.

[empireaddict]

I can’t really contribute to the Blunderbusses discussion because I thought the rules for that unit looked a bit useless and so didn’t buy any! But I have had a few games now with these fellas: http://www.forum.specialist-arms.com/index.php?topic=6287.0

So here are some initial thoughts on WM Chaos Dwarves …

Overall, as an army there are not many units and so it’s not that expensive to buy.  The Eureka CDs are the core and then a mix of GW, Copplestone and Kallistra for the greenskins.  Fairly straightforward to paint.  Should be a very easy win for anyone who already has O&G?

I’ve played half a dozen games with them and they’ve been fun.  Basically they’re Chaos with the option of artillery.  Which sets a bit of a dilemma from the start - do you max out the ordnance and play defensively, or ‘go for it’ aggressively in the standard Chaos way?  Perhaps there’s a middle course?

The artillery is reasonable rather than good.  Same thump as O&G rock lobbers but with similar drawbacks of single stand and no stand-and-shoot.  So need to be carefully protected especially against flyers. I’ve gone for a combination of a cannon and a rocket.  If the rocket gets lucky you can knocks some lumps off a unit while the cannon has a good chance of confusing it and sometimes its neighbours.  But if the enemy targets the artillery brigade you lose 175 points and are two along towards your usually quite low break point.

So in recent games I’ve tended to leave the ordnance in the box and take some extra heavy cavalry instead.  Nice punch, but 5+ armour makes them more fragile than common-or-garden knights.  But with the Black Orcs as heavy infantry and the CDs fulfilling the support role similar to Marauders its not too badly balanced.  The Orc slaves are nice at 35 points a pop but so far I’ve resisted the temptation to max out on them.  The Hobgoblins are not much use as they only have a 15cm shoot and so seem overpriced.

The spells aren’t as powerful as normal Chaos, I think.  The sorcerers can make themselves terrifying or add 3 attacks but the shooting/erupting spells are fairly run-of-the-mill. 

Anyone else want to share their experiences of the list?

[honestmistake]

Don't under estimate the orc dlaves. they are excellent as support troops and help pump up the BP. Also, as they are so cheap you can afford to throw them against masses infantry (such as Undead) and have a reasonable chance of causing a lot of damage. Of the spells the volcano can be devastating if used when you have multiple units engaged in combat so a ring of magic for it is highly suggested

[Grimnir]

I have 3 questions regarding Blunderbuss shooting. While shooting by extending 15cm zone in their frontage, it is possible to hit units that are engaged in combat (both friendly and enemy).
1. Can they willingly shoot into combat? (By extending the zone in their frontage, you do not really target a unit.) Or do you have to nominate a valid target first? (Imo, this wouldn't make sense because the nearest enemy unit doesn't have to be in the zone.)
2. If a unit engaged in combat gets hit, does it have to retreat? I would say no. It wouldn't make sense.
3. If a unit engaged in combat gets hit, do the hits carry over into the first round of combat? It is not written there so it seems they don't. Those are normal shooting attacks so it should follow standard shooting rules. However, it looks more like a mistake than intention. I can't think of any rule which allows "shooting" to combat and doesn't specify that.
Thanks!

[honestmistake]

My best guess answers...
1. No. They may only fire with the 15cm area affect IF a valid target is in range and directly in front of them. Valid targets do not include ones already in combat... the problem here is that they may be able to see another unit which is closer and the rules state that they must shoot that instead.

2/3. Engaged units that take damage during the shooting phase always carry the damage into the first round of combat as if they were struck then. so there will be no drive back. I believe this is clarified somewhere in the LRB (or its erratta?) It is particlarly nasty when lots of shooting attacks get inflicted before a spell is used to move unit/s into combat with them