Why do you SG?

[robbohammer13]

Hello Specialists!

I'm sure most of us SG'ers were rooted in the WHFB and 40K universe and then branched out into Specialist Games. Please correct me if your gaming history was different. However, we've all got the similar interest of Specialist Games; do most of us PREFER Specialist Games? Why?

For me lately, yes. It's the fact the models are smaller. I feel like I get more accomplished painting the smaller models because they're seemingly 'faster to paint'. I also consider it a 'blessing in disguise' that SG's are discontinued. The main reason being you don't have to go out and buy yet another nth edition rulebook or codex. That itself has to be my main gripe with the 'Warhammer' games. On the other side of the coin (of course), I would like if the SG models were in production and easy to find.

Others would say they love the rules, of course! IMO, you get a better 'mass battles' style of game with Warmaster and Epic. While other SG's, such as Man O' War, are just incredibly fun.

So, why do you SG?

[Irisado]

I started playing Epic almost at the same time as 40K and Fantasy, so I wouldn't say that I was rooted in 40K or Fantasy before branching out.

As for what attracted me to Epic, it was the large scale and relative fluidity and logic of the rules.  It was so easy to play relative to 40K and Fantasy at the time, and that remains the case to this day, regardless of which set of rules you play.

[empireaddict]

Absolutely no background in WHFB or 40K which strike me as just skirmish games continually amended to sell eye-wateringly expensive plastic minis.  But long ago I did various historical gaming (15mm & 25mm minis).  WM has a good underlying gaming system (fast play, balanced) and is, essentially, Renaissance with wizards.  So when a friend introduced me, I was hooked.

[Stormwind]

This might sound like a weird answer but - simplicity.

The scale of Epic is such that at a glance you can take in a huge army.

Epic was the first thing I ever set eyes on and that was in the late 80s when I was very young indeed.  the 28mm models in Warhammer and 40k with all their plastic mono pose figures looking the same - seemed so clunky.  Even though I loved Heroquest which shares the same scale and era, it seemed like there was nothing to intellectually hang onto in the larger scale games.

I fantasised about having games like Man o War and Blood Bowl to play, and would even try to make my own versions with proxy models and cardboard counters as I couldn't afford to get them all.

Back in the early 90s every year GW released a new game or expansion.  I had a go at Necromunda but was a bit of a billy-no-mates so never really got a gang for it sorted out.

Off and on I would buy White Dwarf magazines or attempt to work out a force or even try to make my own systems or board games or models with foam, cardboard, plasticard etc.

I tried getting into it properly before university when an off chance trade landed me some Eldar.  All over the years it was the smaller scale games that really fired my imagination.  Now, finally, I am giving Warmaster as well as Epic a go.  28mm Warhammer only appeals for skirmishes and scenarios!

[kyussinchains]

For me it's simple, I like big battles! 

28mm systems like wfb and 40k rapidly break down when you have any kind of sizable looking force on the table.... they are also both demonstrably crappy rulesets, I play epic and warmaster and both are an immensely superior gaming experience to their 28mm cousins

I love the smaller models too!

[Draccan]

I started with Rogue Trader and space marines RTB01. But where 40k quickly became a bloody mess Epic (2nd. ed.) functioned extremely well and gave me that huge ass battle feeling. Fantasy also was a big draw but had big problems until 8th. ed.

I played and dabbled in many games, but SG gave me the perfect blend of the feel of a real strategic and tactical wargame and yet have the fun and craziness of 40k/Fantasy. Be that Epic or Warmaster.

[Geep]

I went the Fantasy/40k route, and used to have great fun with those games. I designed heap of campaigns, but one thing that I always found lacking (in Fantasy) was decent ship rules, so I built my own boats and made my own rules. I did a lot of this, and one of the rulesets I came up with was fairly large scale and used Warmaster bits in the models- a slippery slope. I later discovered Man O War, though to this day have not had a chance to play it. I've also never found anyone willing to give any of my own ship games a go (or any of the other games I devised back in my early wargaming days).

I liked the idea of Epic and Warmaster as their own games, but at the time they were at their most popular all of my friends were against trying new games (the same attitude that sunk all of my own attempts at game design).

I'm a bit of a crazy collector- I like to have a full unit of every possible option in every possible list, and expanding into other game scales is an expansion of this. I justified it with pieces that could be used in the aforementioned ship game, and also as campaign map markers (though no one has ever wanted to play one of my campaigns). Soon the markers grew into a full Orc army, then, through luck, I acquired quite an amazing pre-painted High Elf army (even though I have no other High Elves). I found Warmaster cheap enough that I was able to branch into any army that took my fancy, which all quickly bloated as a result of my 'one of each' obsesssion. Epic has gone the same way, except that I am too late to experience the 'cheap' time, so am much more limited in my armies.

I kept up with Fantasy and 40K until ~8th ed and ~6th ed respectively, at which point the games were strangled by GW. The rules are just too poor now to make a fun game, and the background changes- especially the new Fantasy End Times nonsense- has pretty much made me turn my back on them altogether (I intend to keep what models I have and play older editions with like minded opponents one day).

[Irisado]

That last paragraph sums up why I've stopped playing 40K and Fantasy too.  The rules are just too cumbersome now, and I'm no longer interested in spending so much money on rulebooks and codices/army books either.  End Times is ridiculous in my opinion too.

I still play second edition Epic, incidentally, as well as NetEpic and EA.  I wish I'd focused on them sooner, and not continued with 40K/Fantasy for as long as I did.

[Bessemer]

The 40k route for me too.

One thing that always irked me about 40k in general was a lack of space ships. If there's anything that any sci-fi needs it's space ships. Lots of fluff describing huge, destructive vessels and not one game. Ok Space Fleet was a thing...for about 2 minuets. By the time I'd got into GW ('93 or so) it was long dead. Didn't even know it existed until BFG was released.

The main thing about the SG stuff was that the games were about how you played, not what you played. Sure, there's some better options than others, but good tactics could overcome "poor" force selection. An observation that took me far too long to see. Maybe on purpose.
I was last active in 40k around '07/'08, and back then GW was really the only "game in town". These days, that is fast evaporating-the likes of Spartan and Privateer making better, simpler and...well...more fun systems.

Simple rules that allow for complexity of play are just a hell of a lot more fun to play. I got out of 40k just after 6th ed came out. The system was getting too bloated for it's own good, and the prices just keep on rising. I'm just glad I bought 99% of my BFG stuff back in the day.

[Dave]

I cut my teeth of Epic Space Marine. My cousin got me into it and I got the main set. I painted little apart from 6 stands of Marines, some Guardians and the Titan. He painted all the Orks. We played a few games but then started messing playing with Striker II (a GDW game by Frank Chadwick, it was a port of his WWII rules "Command Decision" to sci-fi). By the time Epic 40k came around I was already a "hardened veteran" and complained endlessly that they stopped making the old plastic infantry. Then I saw the new metal vehicles and started collecting.

I had big dreams for Warhammer 5e and 40k 2e, but never played despite owning some stuff. The first 40k game I played was in 3e. I took a Dark Angel Tac squad I painted along with my cousin's Genestealers against some kids Blood Angel command squad. That's when I realized those were a waste of time.

I got into Epic Armageddon when it came out but didn't really start playing until 2007, 4-5 years later. By that time SG had mostly folded but I had so much Epic at that point I didn't care. I made a pact that if I couldn't finish painting an army and start playing by the end of the year that I would sell it all. I started and stopped an IG and SM army in that time, I didn't have a playable 3k army until 2009ish, so much for that pact.

I was introduced to Warmaster in 2008 by Matt/CaptPiett. We kind of traded games, Epic for Warmaster.

As to why I keep playing them and not the mainstream stuff? There's a few reasons, if I had to list them in descending order they'd be: the guys I play with, the models, the rules. We have a very good group going in New England for specialist games. Epic's king, followed by Warmaster, Necromunda and Man O' War. We get together as a group once a month-ish to play, bust each other's balls and laugh. Can't really beat that. When you add some half-way decent rules though it's a great combination.

[Aquahog]

I got into GW with Fantasy and the then new LotR SBG. A couple of years later I joined a club that only played 40k and Fantasy (or so it seemed at least) so I stopped SBG, tried to get in to 40k but in the end stuck with Fantasy due to a perceived better game experience. Then one of the old guard  at the club launched a BFG campaign and it was glorious. Epic Armageddon launched in White Dwarf and while I was drawn in by the price of an army I stayed due to the engaging ruleset that simply made sense to me in a way no other GW game has ever done. That I could paint an army in the same time it took me to do a Warhammer unit was the proverbial icing of the cake.

Having seen what the Specialist Games could do for 40k I kept looking at Warmaster but was hesitant to take the plunge. Could they really paint up as fast as Epic (eh no, unfortunately) and wouldn't failing orders mess up the game significantly (yes, but that's the art of it)? I hesitated for years but when I found Warmaster Ancients resistance prooved futile and from there on it was a short leap over to Fantasy which by the way turned out to have the best tournament scene of all the Specialist Games in my part of the country.

[robbohammer13]

Interesting replies, folks! Great stories of how you all got into the games. For me, I initially got into 40K 2nd edition. I was on the fence at the time about whether to purchase the 40K set (Orks and Gretchin vs. Marines) or get Epic 40,000 or Man O' War. I decided on 40K because I saw a lot more people playing 40K at the game shop.

I suppose one could say that if not for the great gaming community of the time, who knows if I would have stuck with 40K or GW games? Playing often in an active community lent itself to getting interested in the Specialist Games a bit later on in my gaming career. So basically, 40K propelled me into all types of GW games.

[horizon]

Started with 40k & fantasy mid '90's. Then there were big spaceships. 
Started selling 40k & fantasy. Only a few things left by now. Collection of space ships grew.
Did collect a lot of LotR miniatures and still have them because they're cool.

But, yeah, spaceships.

[David Wasilewski]

Played 1st edition WHFB and WH40K at school and stuck with them for 15-20 years, whilst also enjoying Space Marine and Warmaster when they came out. Also played quite a bit of 6mm and 10mm historical stuff.

I just gradually lost interest in the 28mm versions of the games due to the poor play balance, continual churn of rules and steady drip of releases that are predominantly made to encourage players to buy the latest uber powerful unit. Eventually I ended up just playing Warmaster as it is far more balanced and tactical a game in my opinion (and got REALLY into it and collected large armies of nearly everything back in the day). More recently getting back into Epic Armageddon. Loving it.

It scratches my Warhammer and 40K 'itch' as I have grown up with and love the GW world (until the End Times DC comic style re-branding that is starting). Them killing off SG is the nail in the coffin. I buy nothing from GW now apart from the odd brush and paint.

Dave

[CyberShadow]

Why I got into SG and why I love them today are two different things.

I cut my teeth on Rogue Trader, which I still think is a great game, and very shortly after got into Space Marine first edition and Space Hulk first edition. The initial draw was clear - 40K required a book and multiple packs of figures, while the other two were complete games in a box.

Probably the theme that has kept me in these games from the start to now is the 'cinema' of it all. I love the idea of sweeping combats in Epic with air support, giant Titans, thousands of troops, scores of tanks.... or grande space operations or whatever. To me, the SGs encompass a lot more spectacle than the core 40K/WHFB games.

Also, because they are not a core product, they are not afraid to be disliked. 40K and WHFB have to appeal to all gamers at all times, because they are the mainstream products. The SGs are unashamedly targeted at certain types of players, and unappologetic about it. Lots of people dont like them for a variety of reasons, and thats ok, but it also makes them stronger to me in their theme and focus.

A clear example is 40K which is a skirmish game.... with tanks and aircraft and Knight Titans.... because it needs to appeal to people who want a variety of things in their games, and sell the minis.

Finally, because of their ability to be free for what they are, the SGs can be targeted at a gamer who isnt so interested in 'buckets of dice' (for example) and I find give a much more tactical, flexible and rewarding game, which is vastly more replayable because of it.