[AL] Empire Handgunners

[empireaddict]

Empire Handgunners
Suggestion: Should be +10 point upgrade to a Crossbow unit.
Reason: People rarely use them because 4 missile units is enough in a 2,000 point army.

[Ole]

Jim I can't follow you.

A unit of crossbows is 55 and a unit of hand gunners is 65. That is +10 points.

Ole

[empireaddict]

@Ole, apologies for my lack of clarity.  Crossbows are Min 2.  If you take 4 Crossbows, you then don't need any more missile troops.  So, in my experience, Handgunners rarely get used by Empire players.  So retain Crossbows at Min 2 but allow some or all of them to be upgraded to Handgunners for +10 points.

[forbes]

Seems reasonable - but perhaps only 1 per 1000 as an upgrade?

Otherwise I suspect you will see loads of handguns and few crossbows.

[empireaddict]

@forbes, yes, that sounds like a good idea.  Thanks for the suggestion.

[Ole]

If we would do it like in proper WMA Update style it would be unique per army. This why you could have 3 Crossbows and one hand gunner in a typical army.

But if you would do it the GW way we have to wait until Dave produces Handgunner

[Rowlybot]

I would actually bother to put together a unit of handgunners if they became an upgrade rather than a separate unit.

[Aquahog]

(Dave produces handgunners already).

[honestmistake]

Not so sure on this. It seems very much a personal preference option to me. 2 of us regularly play Empire... I almost never use Handgunners (unless I know I'm playing Dwarves!) while my friend almost always does and would happily dump his cheaper crossbows.

[Ole]

Upgrade:
Upgrade one unit of Crossbowmen to be replaced by Handgunners. Only one Unit of Crossbowmen can be upgraded to Handgunners regardless of the size of the army.

Is this some kind of Power Keep?

No since you can still decide if you prefer the sword of might over this upgrade. It is not going to be a must have choice.
It is simply more variety in smaller games and has little impact on larger battles.
The Points are nothing new and well tested and selected.

Does other armies want a similar treat?
It is just playing with the Min/max without imballacnng the concept as a hole. especially since it is not a new Troop type. I don't see many armies coming along able for the same kind of swap, do you?

[Aquahog]

Upgrade:
Upgrade one unit of Crossbowmen to be replaced by Handgunners. Only one Unit of Crossbowmen can be upgraded to Handgunners regardless of the size of the army.

Where are you getting the max one per army limit from? I think max one per 1000 points as suggested above is much better. They're rare in the background material, but not that rare.

[Ole]

I was understanding empireaddict that he wanted an upgrade for the crossbowmen to include hand gunners in smaller battles. That is not replacing the army list entry of the hand gunners.

so it reads in total:
Handgunners   -/3   65
Crossbowmen   2/-   55 + upgrade exchange one unit of crossbowmen to Handgunners. Once per army

[Aquahog]

As a Reikland player I still favour the upgrade one per 1000 points option more.

[empireaddict]

If I was re-writing the list, I would delete the Handgunners as a separate entry and just make them a possible upgrade to Crossbows.  No strong feelings on what the maximum number should be.  But, given the different flavours of Empire provinces in the fluff, I would like to be generous.  For example, Nuln out to be able to take lots of handgunners vice crossbows?

[Bel]

If I was re-writing the list, I would delete the Handgunners as a separate entry and just make them a possible upgrade to Crossbows.  No strong feelings on what the maximum number should be.  But, given the different flavours of Empire provinces in the fluff, I would like to be generous.  For example, Nuln out to be able to take lots of handgunners vice crossbows?

Agree.