Specialist Arms Forum
Specialist Games General Discussion => Events => Topic started by: pw on September 11, 2012, 08:46:56 PM
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Hi All, are any of you interested in meeting up at Warhammer World on Saturday November 17th for a day of Warmaster goodness?
Let's play!
DATE: 17th November 2012
PLACE: Warhammer World
TIME: 10am-7pm
PRICE: Free (but bringing treats/cake to share would be nice)
PLAYERS: Maximum of 12 (unless I get more tables but that isn't likely)
FORMAT: One big game, 3 a side, each player with 2500 points. Combined break point for each army.
Players
TEAM ONE: (fully Evil)
1. Paul W (me) - CHAOS
2. Paul W (not me) - DARK ELVES
3. Dave W - CHAOS
TEAM TWO (mostly Good)
4. Mark A - HIGH ELVES
5. Forbes R. - Empire
6. Hopefully fondfarewell (from Warseer), with Chaos
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Yep! :D
JChaos and me are doing our best to be there, but not confirmed yet...
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Will try to get there, especially if our friends from abroad can try to make it :)
I think I owe Jchaos a pint or vice versa ;)
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That would be cool. :) It'll be great to put faces (and real names) to the people on here.
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Wow, Edmund, Jchaos, how are you going to transport your armies?, by plane?
I envy you all !!
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The nice thing about WM is that it'd be pretty easy to fit an army into handluggage (I wouldn't put mine in the hold!). Or, I reckon we can find some loaner armies for people who need them. I can probably offer up Dark Elves if they're needed. Where are you Kesseki? Can we tempt you along...
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The nice thing about WM is that it'd be pretty easy to fit an army into handluggage
Right. :)
how many points shall be the armies?
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Hi All,
I'm open to suggestions as to the format of the day. I offer the following as a start point for our discussion (remember, we have three tables booked):
1) Three games across the day (which will likely run from 10am-7pm, so about 6-7 hours of gaming time if we leave space for lunch/breaks etc).
2) Rather than use scenarios, each player plays once on each table. The tables will have pre-set scenery to aid with speed of play and to ensure that each game feels different despite not having special rules.
3) The first games to be 'doubles' games with two players on each side (seems like a friendly way to start things off to me). Perhaps 1000 points per player?
4) The next two games to be 'singles' games, at either 1500 or 1700 points? I'd suggest using the minimums from the 2000 point list here and the maximums from the 1000 to keep things nice. (perhaps people might design armies at 1000, 1500 and 2000 points and use one of these each round (with the last game being reduced in size if time is tight)?
Other things I think would help:
1) No houserules.
2) All official and experimental army lists allowed (it's meant to be an inclusive thing).
3) Army lists to be posted online before the event so that we can all read up on the rules beforehand (and I might ask someone with more experience to check that none are horribly hard!).
4) Painted armies if possible (but not essential). Oh, and they probably need to be GW miniatures (at least in the main).
So, what do people think? The aim is for a day of relaxed gaming and the breaks/lunch/pottering around time are a key part!
EDIT: Alternatives to the format outlined about:
1) three doubles games (always fun)
2) one huge day-long battle across the three tables (i.e. two 'teams')
2) A smaller battle (doubles perhaps) followed by a larger battle (two teams)
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Sounds like a great event, i'd love to be involved. Plus i only live 20mins away so i can bring terrain if needed
EDIT: Alternatives to the format outlined about:
1) three doubles games (always fun)
2) one huge day-long battle across the three tables (i.e. two 'teams')
2) A smaller battle (doubles perhaps) followed by a larger battle (two teams)
Well, i have 3 friends with warmaster armies, not asked them yet. Is there a maximum number of players? .. i think that would take us up to 10 players, if that's too many it's okay.
I do like the idea of one huge battle across 3 tables, it's not very often i get the chance to have a game involving that many people. Can you imagine a 5-a-side warmaster game, each with 2k points :o ;D
But i don't mind which we do, i'm up for the smaller games as well. Word of warning, if we go for the massive game, i'd try and avoid the tables in a long line (18ft x 4ft) because from experience it ends up feeling like it's 3 seperate games anyway. For massive games you're best to do either a T-shape, or maybe 4 tables in a square (12ft x 8ft) and special deployment (so you've got armies all over the battlefield)
The other thing to be aware of is the time. I've done a few huge warhammer games in the past and in all the games our problem was we ran out of time. When we turned up we were chatting, laughing, fetching drinks, looking at each others armies, discussing our tactics. All the things we should be doing because it's a sociable event. I think we finished 4 turns, it's amazing how fast the time goes. It would be a real shame if we organised all this and didn't have time to finish one game.
Not sure what the solution to this is...... if you aim for a game to last 3 hours and there's 6 turns, that means 15mins per side.
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That's excellent news :). The idea of us having too many players is very entertaining indeed! I'd say that with three 6x4 tables the maximum we could have comfortably would be 12 which would mean playing doubles games at all times. I'm also well aware that by making the event free it become easier to drop out of it so if we end up with 12 potential players we may well actually get 6!
Your points about the massive game are interesting, it's not something I've ever done. On the one hand it sounds like fun, on the other hand I think you're right in suggtesting that it's something that we'd be unlikely to finish. I'd also be concerned that a day-long game could mean some people don't actually get much to do (if, say, their army is destroyed etc). There's also the issue of table 'shape', it's unlikely that we'd be allowed to move the tables. If I recall correctly, there's a tournament at WHW on the 17th so we'll probably have to stay where we are. The good news is that the three tables are next to each other (I checked with Barnaby who I booked it with) so we can easily chat etc.
This perhaps doesn't rule out the 'medium sized' game option...
So, who has been to a one-day Warmaster event? What worked? My only tournament experience is with Blood Bowl and Warhammer Doubles and I've enjoyed playing several games over a day and it's always been a bit rushed! The key in both types of event has been simplicity and keeping faffing about to a minimum (predesigned lists, tables, rules).
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Wow, Edmund, Jchaos, how are you going to transport your armies?, by plane?
I envy you all !!
Hey kesseki do you want to join us?
I'm still looking for the proper route but I nearly have it
--> oporto --> london --> nottingham
also have to take some holiday spare day, so it depends on my work.
Next week maybe I could confirm
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1) No houserules.
Definitely, nothing more annoying than lining up your shiny silverhelms to smash some goblins, only to find that they have higher saves than you WTF!!!
I also think that the declaration of lists prior to the event prevents any dubious items appearing on the day ;)
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Where are you Kesseki? Can we tempt you along...
I'm from Madrid but i can not travel so soon, i have spent my holidays and a weekend isn't time enough for me :-(
I know Jchaos and Edmund in person and i think they're going to be greater players than me (they play more often and they are very nice Strategists too), i'm proud of you guys, and i'm looking forward to see your battle reports that probably make me greener!!
But if you come to Madrid, i'll be pleased to meet you all and play some battles (i have 6 armies that want to go out from the box).
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Definitely, nothing more annoying than lining up your shiny silverhelms to smash some goblins, only to find that they have higher saves than you WTF!!!
hahahaha ;D
@Kesseki: I will fly from Madrid, if you change your mind just let me know
@pw: ok to everything in principle. I can gather figures to raise an army of 2000pts. I will try all the figures are GW, and plan several lists (1000, 1500,etc). I have never been in events. I am open and can adapt any kind of game/battle you suggest. I think JChaos will do too ;)
@calmacil: I agree about the time. Maybe better plan out a game not too big so it can be played in time or not too rushed.
@azrael: ok about the pint! ;D
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@calmacil: I agree about the time. Maybe better plan out a game not too big so it can be played in time or not too rushed.
Here's my theory, am i wrong about this?
If we're playing a multiplayer game of WM and we all have 2k points each, shouldn't that take the same amount of time as having a 1v1 game with 2k each?
We're still controlling 2,000 points worth of troops. I can see there would be a slight delay with discussing things with your allies (eg. do you want to control that hill? etc)
But i can't see where it would delay us elsewhere.
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Two topics here: DATES and GAME TYPE:
DATES
Calmacil has suggested that we look at other dates to avoid tournaments at WHW and I'm seeking feedback on this here. For information, you can see the WHW calendar online here:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=3500001&aId=14300120a
There's nothing in November though December is largely free.
My preference is to just get on with it as people seem to be free on the 17th but it can be changed easy enough if people want to move this to December. If we do change it I'll likely go on the 17th anyway as I've got the pass-out already and see if I can get another for a later date!
GAME TYPE
I don't know much about large games but my imagination tells me that they're likely to be large sprawling affairs that take ages (due to people chatting which is no bad thing). I can only see one of these happening in a day if we decide to do that. I'd estimate that the game would take at least twice as long as a single-player 2000 point game (whenever I've read about big games online they've always taken a day or so and often they've remained unfinished).
My reservation about playing one big game is that it may leave some people with relatively little to do once their armies get smashed. Also, those who are quick to play will have to wait for others to get their bit done.
Table shape seems to be the big issue really (and the deciding factor in my mind): I think Calmacil is right that a very long table wouldn't be conducive to this kind of thing (essentially people would end up playing small games against the person opposite with other people next to them on each side. If we change the date and can get a day with more space for maneouver we could be able to move the table about to avoid this.
I'm likely being over-cautious here but the tried-and-tested tournament style (but friendly) multi-game format seems almost guaranteed to work while the big game could be a big win but might not. I'm no gambler me, as you'll see when I work to manage the odds during my games!
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First of all, thanks pw for taking the effort of dealing with it.
If I finally manage to go , I will pleased to play whatever you decide, large battle, large battle unfinished, three small battles, whatever. My point is gather together and have fun.
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Hi All, here's my latest suggestion which I think responds to the issues of space/time/player numbers/game preferences quite well. It also sounds (to me) like a good laugh:
We could have two medium sized games running at once, each on a 9x4 table (assuming that the tables are connected which I was told they were. This would mean four teams (of 2-3). The winners of each battle play the winners of the other one, losers take each other on in the second game of the day. Effectively it's a very small swiss-style doubles/trebles tournament. Although not everyone would play everyone we'd be close enough to chat and have a good laugh.
This two-game format has the benefit of fitting like this:
10.00-1.30pm GAME 1
1.30-2.30 Lunch
2.30-6.00 GAME 2
6.00 MESSING ABOUT, another game etc. (I'll be there until 7pm as will the other Paul I've already convinced to join us). I think Warhammer World is generally open much later for anyone who wants to keep playing.
At the end of that day, if we get some games in we're going to have fun no matter what format it takes.
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Good Gracious, I've just noticed that this clashes with the Tri-Wizard advertised by Janners below. The last thing I want to do is to spoil someone else's tournament... :-[ :-[ :-[ If anyone was planning to head down to Suffolk please don't come to my cake-meet...
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Thanks for letting me know about this PW, I completely missed this thread!
I will be coming down with at least 1 other and possible up to 3 others.
Having read everything, I agree that the 2 games with the option of a 3rd in the evening for those who can stay is the safest suggestion.
I would suggest booking another couple of tables if you can, it sounds like we're going to need them!
What are we doing for terrain? Is WHW providing it?
I would also suggest sticking with this date (anyways, we might not be able to come if the date is changed now) despite the clash - there's plenty of room for two sets of games on the same day - its not like we're competing with each other to see who can do the bigger event. I doubt many people could afford the time to go to two events close to each other, even if you did change the date?
Dave
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Hi All,
I've had a very nice email from Janners and now feel much happier about sticking with the 17th so, to avoid any confusion here's where things stand:
DATE: 17th November 2012
PLACE: Warhammer World
TIME: 10am-7pm
PRICE: Free (but bringing treats/cake to share would be nice)
PLAYERS: Maximum of 12 (unless I get more tables but that isn't likely)
FORMAT: Provisionally, we'll be playing in teams of two on 6x4 tables, each player to have an army of 2000 pts (or perhaps 1500)
NUMBER OF GAMES: Minimum of two (before and after lunch), if people play fast there could be time for a third.
So far we have five confirmed players and eight provisionals. Please can you confirm either way as soon as you can by posting here or sending me a PM. Please could you also PM me your email addresses so that I can send out further details once things are finalized.
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My gaming bud maybe convinced to come to a multiplayer game but refuses to play even in friendly one on ones with folks he doesn't know.
That said aim up for anything.
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Would he be up for doubles games as your partner? (It's how I've convinced my friend to play and seems like a good social way to get new players involved.)
EDIT:
I've had confirmation from WHW that the three tables we've booked are joined in a long line which means that we can easily manage either two doubles games on two 9x4 tables or three doubles games on 6x4, depending on who can make it. It also means it'll be nice and sociable whatever games we're playing. They also said there could be extra tables on the day which we can't book now (my experience of gaming at WHW suggests that this will be the case though they may well be away from our tables, if one of us gets there nice and early we can probably get the extra ones we need).
They also confirmed that they don't have any 10mm scenery so tables will be decorated with normal Warhammer stuff. The trees/hills will all be fine but we'll need some 10mm stuff if it's to look nice. Please can you let me know what you might be able to bring along?
I have:
About six houses, some fences, the river from BOFA. Just enough to make one table look like a Warmaster table. I'll try to get some more stuff over the coming month to add to this (more linear obstacles perhaps).
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There used to be a guy over on the yahoo group who worked there and organised a game every February (winter warmer) he used to provide scenery, wonder if he still works there?
Lex may know.
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I have a small collection of painted resin buildings (6) with associated "built up area" bases that I wouldn't mind bringing, along with some resin fields.
Dave
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There used to be a guy over on the yahoo group who worked there and organised a game every February (winter warmer) he used to provide scenery, wonder if he still works there?
Lex may know.
Tom WD
No idea if he is still there....
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There used to be a guy over on the yahoo group who worked there and organised a game every February (winter warmer) he used to provide scenery, wonder if he still works there?
Lex may know.
TOMWD / thomas.websterdeakin
not sure if he still works there
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I have a feeling that TWD isn't with GW but I could be wrong. His twitter summary lists him as a 'man of leisure' or something like that.
If any of you know you're definately coming please can you drop me a PM including:
(a) your email address
(b) the army you'd like to use (if you know it)
(c) details of who you'd like to 'pair' with if you're bringing someone.
(d) your real name (unless you really want to hide your identity!)
Or post it here if you don't mind sharing your email address with the online world...
In a way there's no real rush to get things firmed up (and no-one's going to get turned away) but it'd be nice to know how things are progressing.
Cheers - Paul
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My real name, is ........... David Wasilewski (quelle suprise!)
I intend to bring 2K of Chaos down with me - nothing too fishy, a good, balanced force. ( 8 units of Knights and a general o.k? :) ) Joke!
I'm bringing an unknown quantity of fellow gamers (between 1 and 3 others) who are useless and can't seem to commit in advance. My 1 definite brother in arms will be Mark Almond who is likely to bring 2K of high elves (tournament army list). I'll ally with him but honestly not that bothered - happy to ally with a fellow chaos player as an alternative? I'll fit in with what the crowd wants - I just want a good game, cake and beer!
Dave
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My name is Mick Marriott
I will be attending, but haven't decided on a force yet (maybe chaos dwarves).
I may be bringing one other who like Dave's companions seems unable to commit, he will be playing Standard High Elves or dwarves.
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Thanks Chaps, I've amended the first post with details (which can and will change I'm sure!). So far, it looks like the bad guys of the Warhammer world are descending in force!
And with that, I'm off to slap some paint on the Ogres for my Chaos army... :)
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Hi All, sadly Jchaos and Edmund aren't going to be able to make it this time (so the 'furthest travelled' award is probably mine!). In their honour I will do my utmost to bring along some fine Spanish cakes (I've got oranges and almonds in my mind right now but I'd be pleased to hear suggestions!).
In slightly better news, I've begun my quest to get some more WM scenery sorted so that we can show Warhammer World what wargaming on a grand scale should look like and have picked up a couple of Forge World Inns and the Wizard's tower that I've been after for ages!
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I can confirm that I will be coming with 2 players now, Mark A (with High Elves) and Forbes R (with High Elves too).
Dave
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Excellent news Dave. That brings us up to seven. I think a realistic number to aim for now is 8 (four doubles teams playing on tables of 9'x4') which means we need just one more player to commit. Any more than that and we'll either:
(a) (if we end up with under 12) have teams of 2-3 a side.
(b) (if we end up with 12+) have six doubles teams playing 3 games, each on a single table.
Both are fine by me (I can't imagine that we'll hit 12 to be honest).
I'm looking forward to this and I'm starting to believe it's actually going to happen!
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No doubt it will happen. Great pw!!
Take some shots for the rest of the comunity, and have great fun!
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I'd never count my chickens! And here's why...
I've just heard from Calmacil that he can't make it :'( (and I assume this means his fellow gamers won't make it) so the inevitable downsizing has already begun...
The bad news here is that this brings us down to 6 (maybe 7) which is a very awkward number with which to play doubles. It may well be that a bigger 3-a side game is on the cards.
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Don't worry - as long as we have 6 or more definites, we can do a 6K a side mega game!
What rules are we using? Is it the living rulebook? If so: are any trial rules being used?
Our little group is going to struggle anyway as we have lots of house rules that are peculiar just to our group, that are going to have to be "forgotten" for this game.
Really looking forward to it. A day of cake, beer and wargaming.......
Mmm... cake and beer......
:)
Dave (Lord Arbaal the Undefeated - except on Tuesdays)
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If we hit six players (rather than eight) then a single big game seems like the best option (heck, we could fall down to 5 players, who knows). I'd expect we'd be playing this on a 12x4 table.
As for rules, I think the simplest option is best. So, I'd say keep it to the official rules/lists + trial army lists if someone wants to use one. I'm happy to take advice on this, I tend to play the rules straight out of the published book plus the PDFs that are up on GWs site:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=cat480010a&categoryId=6700008a§ion=&aId=21500023a
That's the rules update and Warmaster Armies.
Does that sound sensible?
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Yup, sounds good to me. I'm not that competitive anyway so it doesn't matter to me what rules we use. It's just that one of our group wanted to know.
Dave
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Played a couple of tourneys and House rules confuse matters.
Got to say if house orders are going to be used, I will be giving this a miss, but don't let that put you off using them.
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No, I think the plan is to play with the living rule book pure, as is: no house rules. And I'm fine with that.
Dave
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Hi All,
I can confirm that this tournament is going to be 'full vanilla' in terms of rules. As I suggested above, we'll use the standard rulebook plus the official rules review that amends that book slightly. That keeps it nice and simple (and it's what I'm used to, and to be honest I don't play enough to know one good house rule from another).
The only variant, would be to allow an experimental army (to avoid excluding anyone) but ideally I'd go with armies from the Warmaster Armies Book that's up on the GW website.
The only rules tinkering I propose (and it's not tinkering proper) is to put on paper the way we will play terrain. So, for example, villages etc that have a defined area footprint, might be treated as area terrain with the buildings themselves moveable to allow easy play, whereas buildings without such a village base would be counted as impassible terrain. I saw an excellent document online once that had really tidy and tight descriptions of terrain but I can't find it now. If anyone can point me at it we could use it as the basis for a discussion. I also think we should agree before we meet if we're to use pre-measuring. Personally, I would like to use it as it avoids ill-feeling and speeds things up but I'd be happy to hear the counterargument (i.e. that it's more fun to guess and be right/wrong). As for line of sight issues, these will be dealt with in the terrain document, and I'll bring my tiny laser to bear on anyone who gets silly!
@Mick, I really hope you'll be able to make it, I'm looking forward to the chance to meet up with fellow forumites after chatting for so long on here. If you're there we're a confirmed six (my gaming buddy has bought his train ticket so we're both in barring disaster). Please do let me know if you think your friend can make it and we can plan accordingly (either to play 4 versus 3 or to hunt down one more player to make a handy 8-player day for some doubles action).
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I am in, my friend is not.
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Excellent (that you're in, not that your friend isn't!), that's six a side for a big day of gaming fun ahead and I'm really looking forward to it...
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Hi Chaps
Looking forward to gaming at WHW in a couple of weeks. Sounds even better now that cake is involved! And as Mark is driving then me and Dave can partake of Bugmans.
Haven't been done to WHW for years - went for a Winter Warmer 5 or 6 years ago (or longer...)
I can bring some trees and houses, and assorted bases for area terrain such as rough or fields.
I'm bringing my Empire army, especially as it saw off the combined might of Chaos and Dwarves last night!! And my Araby army is only about 25% GW.
A big multi-player game sounds good.
I'm up for pre-measuring, as that's how we normally play.
LOS - its better to make the terrain block LOS in a generous fashion, rather than in a literal fashion. i.e if a unit is behind the crest of the hill, they are behind the crest of the hill, even if their heads are sticking over the top. Otherwise the terrain has to be really big to have a good effect on the game.
Cheers
Forbes
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@Forbes, don't suppose you boys are passing by Jct 33 of the M1 on your way there? ;)
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I've only just realised that it's November all ready and that this is wonderfully soon. (Given that I've just taken my eldest to a firework display my lack of temporal awareness surprises even me and I have very low expectations of myself in such things).
It looks like things are shaping up nicely for a big 3-a-side 6000 point game. I propose that we go for the following teams:
BAD GUYS: Dave, Paul, and Paul (2 Chaos + DE)
GOOD GUYS: Mick, Forbes, Mark (High Elf, Empire, ??)
If this sounds ok, how about we elect a pair of team captains?
My vote goes to Dave for Captain Bad Guy, that way we'll have someone who knows what they're doing at the helm. You up for it Dave?
Who fancies taking the helm for the Good Guys (who might also be the '2 good guys and a bad guy' depending on what army Mick goes for)?
The only real job for team captains might be posting up the army lists on here at some point over the next week or so (if only to give me a chance to read the rules with a little more purpose!).
Looking forward to it...
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Azrael - Thats Rotherham/Sheffield way isn't it? I don't think so, I expect we will go down M6 and across A50. But can check with Mark.
Points wise, I wonder if we need to up the size slightly, to better fit the time we have. The other night we played 4k vs 2k + 2k, with just 1 player running the 4k side. We played from 20:30 to 01:00 so 4.5 hrs, with the table and terrain already done.
Even allowing for some more setup time and lunch, this would give a 16:00 finish or so at WHW. Would another 500pts per player extend the game a bit, but still allow the game to come to a conclusion? If we go with 2500pts it would be with 2k min & max.
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I'm very happy to take advice on the size of the armies. I've never played a game of over 2000 points so I really haven't got a clue! Certainly we won't have time for more than one game so making it last long enough. My train from Notts is at 19:40 so I'll be wanting to pack up at about 19:00 I guess (and the other Paul is working to a similar time).
The good thing about moving up to 2500 is that I don't have to worry about my army list one bit, it's all I've got:
300 - 2 Chaos Warriors
240 - 4 Chaos Marauders
210 - 2 Ogres
600 - 3 Chaos Knights
120 - 4 Chaos Hounds
95 - 1 Chaos Chariots
65 - 1 Harpies
250 - 1 Dragon Ogres
155 - 1 General
- 1 Orb of Majesty (30)
260 - 2 Hero
- 1 Chaos Dragon (100)
180 - 2 Sorcerer
In fact, I don't actually have a third painted unit of Knights but I reckon I could get them done. I'd also like to paint up my Nurgle Daemon Prince (who might replace the second sorcerer)....
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@ forbes, yep that's right.
@PW Really you can't paint a unit of 10mm knights in 2 weeks :o ;D
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Now that sounds like a challenge! I accept :) (though I don't have your talent for painting at speed).
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(SLAP) - the sound of a steel studded black leather gauntlet strikes the side of my hero's face and then (splosh) falls into into the mud at his feet. With gritted teeth, Arbaal the Undefeated (Except on Tuesdays) snatched up the glove, spat saliva tinged with blood onto the dark earth and bows to accept the challenge.
Now my dark captains, what forces do you muster to crush the efeete humans ansd their lackeys?
I propose to bring the following 2500 crowns worth of troops:
General (Arbaal the Undefeated) with the Orb of Majesty 150
Hero w' sword of might 90
Hero w' sword of fate 85
Sorceror w' staff of spellbinding 120
Sorceror w' ring of magic 120
4 units of Chaos Hounds 120
4 units of marauder infantry 240
1 unit of dragon ogres 250
3 units of chaos knights (one w' the banner of shielding) 650
4 units of chaos warriors on foot (1 with the sword of cleaving) 610
1 unit of harpies 65
In my head, this adds up to 2500 points exactly and has a break point of 9
Comments and catcalls welcome!
Cake for the Cake God!!!!!
Dave
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My current Empire list is looking like this:
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180 - 4 Halberdiers
65 - 1 Handgunners
220 - 4 Crossbowmen
140 - 2 Flagellants
880 - 8 Knights
190 - 2 Pistoliers
50 - 1 Helblaster
170 - 2 Cannon
130 - 1 Steam Tank
125 - 1 General
240 - 2 Hero
- 1 Griffon (80)
110 - 2 Wizard
- 1 Scroll of Dispelling (20)
----------------------------------------------------------------
2500 - 25/13
It might undergo a bit of tinkering yet though...
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Wow am i actually posting on the forum, it's been a long time.... Somebody get a calculator and check dave vos numbers maths is not his strong point and the last time dave was down in Lenton he has to wear a big white beard.
As for the glorious high elf army they will be able to muster the following forces to defeat the evil chaos army
General orb of majesty
Hero on dragon mount sword of might
Hero on chariot mount
Wizard dispel scroll
Wizard
4x spearmen
4x archers
6x silver helms
2x giant eagles
2x bolt throwers
4x reavers
22 units bp 11 2500 points
I vote for Forbes to command the forces of good.
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Mark,
Using the selector at http://wm-selector.appspot.com/ it seems its your maths that is off
Warmaster Army Selector
High Elf Army, 2560 points
Warmaster Armies
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240 - 4 Spearmen
300 - 4 Archers
660 - 6 Silver Helms
400 - 4 Reavers
140 - 2 Giant Eagles
130 - 2 Elven Bolt Thrower
210 - 1 General
- 1 Orb of Majesty (30)
280 - 2 Hero
- 1 Dragon (100)
- 1 Chariot (10)
- 1 Sword of Might (10)
200 - 2 Wizard
- 1 Scroll of Dispelling (20)
----------------------------------------------------------------
2560 - 22/11
Vos is only 5pts over - I think with the General
Warmaster Army Selector
Chaos Army, 2505 points
Warmaster Armies
----------------------------------------------------------------
610 - 4 Chaos Warriors
- 1 Sword of Cleaving (10)
240 - 4 Chaos Marauders
650 - 3 Chaos Knights
- 1 Banner of Shielding (50)
120 - 4 Chaos Hounds
65 - 1 Harpies
250 - 1 Dragon Ogres
155 - 1 General
- 1 Orb of Majesty (30)
175 - 2 Hero
- 1 Sword of Fate (5)
- 1 Sword of Might (10)
240 - 2 Sorcerer
- 1 Ring of Magic (30)
- 1 Staff of Spellbinding (30)
----------------------------------------------------------------
2505 - 17/9
Paul looks like he has room for a couple more magic items
Warmaster Army Selector
Chaos Army, 2475 points
Warmaster Armies
----------------------------------------------------------------
300 - 2 Chaos Warriors
240 - 4 Chaos Marauders
210 - 2 Ogres
600 - 3 Chaos Knights
120 - 4 Chaos Hounds
95 - 1 Chaos Chariots
65 - 1 Harpies
250 - 1 Dragon Ogres
155 - 1 General
- 1 Orb of Majesty (30)
260 - 2 Hero
- 1 Chaos Dragon (100)
180 - 2 Sorcerer
----------------------------------------------------------------
2475 - 18/9
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Mark - my mistake, I used the original HE list, not the tournament one, which comes out at 2500 dead on.
Warmaster Army Selector
High Elf Tournament Army, 2500 points
Warmaster Trial Armies Compendium 2009
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240 - 4 Spearmen
300 - 4 Archers
660 - 6 Silver Helms
360 - 4 Reavers
140 - 2 Giant Eagles
110 - 2 Elven Bolt Thrower
210 - 1 General
- 1 Orb of Majesty (30)
280 - 2 Hero
- 1 Dragon (100)
- 1 Chariot (10)
- 1 Sword of Might (10)
200 - 2 Wizard
- 1 Scroll of Dispelling (20)
----------------------------------------------------------------
2500 - 22/11
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I did the sums late at night but I think you will find the tournament list is correct unlike mr Vos who is 5 points over morale victory to me I think.....
I am taking Vos, Forbes, my son chris and myself down on the day but if you are stuck for a lift, then azreal I can see if journey planner can get us to notts via M1, need to check journey times as we will need to leave early anyway, I will let you know if it is possible.
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The Lord of the End times is thinking that with a bit of painting he might just bring along:
Warmaster Army Selector
Chaos Army, 2500 points
Warmaster Armies
----------------------------------------------------------------
300 - 2 Chaos Warriors
240 - 4 Chaos Marauders
210 - 2 Ogres
600 - 3 Chaos Knights
120 - 4 Chaos Hounds
95 - 1 Chaos Chariots
65 - 1 Harpies
250 - 1 Dragon Ogres
155 - 1 General
- 1 Orb of Majesty (30)
265 - 2 Hero
- 1 Chaos Dragon (100)
- 1 Sword of Fate (5)
200 - 2 Sorcerer
- 1 Wand of Power (10)
- 1 Rod of Repetition (10)
----------------------------------------------------------------
2500 - 18/9
Morathi has pledged to send the following to support the Chaos horde:
Warmaster Army Selector
Dark Elf Army, 2380 points
Warmaster Armies
----------------------------------------------------------------
300 - 5 Spearmen
150 - 2 Crossbowmen
210 - 3 Witch Elves
285 - 3 Dark Riders
520 - 4 Cold One Knights
65 - 1 Harpies
135 - 1 War Hydra
110 - 2 Bolt Thrower
185 - 1 General
- 1 Orb of Majesty (30)
240 - 2 Hero
- 1 Manticore (80)
180 - 2 Sorceress
- 1 Scroll of Dispelling (20)
----------------------------------------------------------------
2380 - 21/11
But look, the Hag Queen has come up short and she and Archaon, are wondering if anyone can call in some painted Dark Elf Reinforcements? Ideally, a couple of units of Spearmen (and, even better, two Sorceresses to avoid us using stand in heroes)? If not, expect the real oddity of seeing a couple of units of Halberdiers join the fray.
All of this does depend on approval from General Arbaal...
@Mick, if you end up getting a train let me know. The other Paul and I are training it (from London and Manchester) and could meet to share a taxi if you like.
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My mate Jon has a large, completely painted army of Dark Elves, I'll ask him if we can borrow some units. You're 120 points short - can I suggest another unit of cold one knights!
So exactly what do you need? 2 units of spearmen and 2 sorcerors? (and the unit of cold one knights?)
Dave AKA
Arbaal The Undefeated
(Except on Tuesdays)
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Just noticed that the "other Paul" lives in Manchester.
Paul, I live in Chorley - do you fancy coming down for a game of warmaster one friday night?
PM me if you're interested/available
Dave
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Hi Dave, it's me that lives near Manchester. Marple actually. I'd love to meet up for a game some time but with two young boys in the house it'll take a bit of planning, maybe we can figure something out when we meet up.
On borrowing figs, I have everything listed except sorceresses. If we can have two of them that would be grand, plus 120 points of whatever you think would work. Ive only used the army once!
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O.k. - I'll ask Jon if we can borrow 2 sorcerors and a unit of cold one knights (what do they cost?)
Cavalry is king, particularly if at least a third of the tabl;e isn't covered in terrain!
Dave
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Thanks Dave.
Cold Ones are 130 pts. I can swap out the dispel scroll for something costing 10 points to make them fit.
As for the terrain v cav thing, I think we can manage to cover enough of the table with terrain/obstacles to make sure that the infantry have a part to play. I'll bring everything I've got.
EDIT: I've just looked at travel to/from Chorley and it looks like it could be doable. Or, easier still, meeting up at the NW Gaming Centre in Stockport (not that I've been there for ages).
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I think that Mark (the designated driver) is picking me up at my house in Euxton, Chorley. Forbes is going to meet up at my house too. There might be room for you to come down together if you want to come to meet up and leave from my house? We'll probably be planning on leaving shortly after 7:00.
Dave
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Hi Dave, that's very kind but it's probably easier if I stick with the train from here (I'd not have the car so it'd really just exchange one train journey for another).
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Sorry going to have to bail on this.
Cash shortages and illness mean I am unable to get there :'(
Sorry.
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I'm sorry to hear that Mick. :( I hope the illness goes away soon, perhaps cured by a surprise lottery win...
So, we're down to five now (lower than even my most pessimistic estimate!). I guess we have two obvious options:
1) Find a sixth player.
2) Markyparky and Forbes stump up another 1250 points each.
MP and F - is that possible?
Or, can we tap up a fresh player somewhere? I think I've pestered everyone on this forum already so we may need to look beyond! Shall I try Rick Priestley?!
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Mick - hope things resolve themselves soon. :(
If another player can be found that would be great.
If not Mark and me can certainly rustle up a few more points of HE and Empire.
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I've got about 1000 pts of painted Empire too if it's needed.
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Armies are not a problem, our group has an INSANE amount of warmaster between us (e.g. I have 8K of painted Orcs and Goblins).
Yes, I'd contact Rick or anyone else that you know that is near to Nottingham. A 6th player would be nice.
Dave
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Armies are not a problem, our group has an INSANE amount of warmaster between us (e.g. I have 8K of painted Orcs and Goblins).
Yes, at last count we were at over 150,000 pts between 7 of us - with about half painted. And that total has certainly been added to.
If you can rustle up Rick or another player then that would be great.
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150,000! That calls for a row of these:
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :
I should say that I don't know Rick personally (though we've exchanged emails a few times) so I don't hold out a great deal of hope on that score. Are there any other forums where Warmaster players congregate?
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Yes, there's about 6 of us in our group who play Warmaster and most of each of these players has between 3 and 8 large (4K+) armies each with a couple of players owning "double size" armies (6 to 10K each).
Warseer has a couple of people who occassionally post in the warmaster bit of the specialist games section?
Dave
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I would have loved to have come along - I live within an hour of WHW - but that day I'm down in Suffolk at the Tri-Wiz WM tournament. However, I hope you have a good one. I'll be interested to hear how the game runs at that size.
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@empireaddict: Bad timing, I'd have loved to see your Ogres in the game. There's always next time...
@therestofyou:
Let's talk rules!
Keeping it simple seems like the best thing (so standard rules as discussed before). But some specifics for the multi-player game deserve clarification. I think the rest of you have more experience than I do so please chip in. How's this for a starter:
1) Combined army breakpoint
2) Each side plays as three armies (i.e. heroes can only order their own troops etc)
3) Each side has three generals. One failing an order ends his army's orders phase but not those of the other two players.
4) Magic items can be duplicated across armies (as we've already done)
5) Premeasuring is allowed
And questions:
1) Do we allow units from one army to support those from another army?
2) Can heroes from one army join units from another army to give support in combat?
3) Magic, can spells be cast on units that are not in the same army? (I'd guess no?)
No doubt I've missed stuff, suggestions etc very welcome. :)
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I would say "yes" to all 3 of your questions.
I see no reason to not allow this unless you set up some type of animosity table that forced you to roll a 4+ for the attempt first for particular races (elves on dwarves as an example).
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Good news, Dave's thread on Warseer appears to have found us a sixth player :). The challenge now is imagining why the Good Alliance has allowed a Chaos warlord to join them in their defence of the Empire. I'm guessing it's some sort of odd Slanneshi mindbending act that's got them all befuddled.
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I would watch him closely 8)
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I agree. "yes" to all assumptions and all 3 questions.
Looking forward to it, and its good that we've got 6 players now again!
What was the response to the tables request - are they moving thim into one big one, or are we playing with a thin, long version?
Dave
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I forgot to add.
Timing. Are we planning on setting up around 10:00 and playing through till late afternoon (what time do people have to catch trains back?)
Just from my pov, could we be finished by 5:00?
Dave
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The Other PaulTM and I should arrive at about 9.30 (the doors officially open at ten I think but in my experience they tend to be open already) and I'll be leaving at about 7pm. I think we should make our official start time (i.e. table setting up time) 10am but anyone who is there early should feel free to get cracking with the terrain. Then I'd think each team will need 10 mins 'alone time' with the table to make plans (while the other team get the coffees in) before setting up. If we're finished by 5 that would be fine by me.
As for table layout, I've not had an answer (I emailed about it a couple of days ago I think). I'm assuming they'll say no but that we might be allowed to move them around ourselves if we don't get in anyone's way.
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I agree with all your 5 assumptions. I would have gone with No for all 3 questions, but aren't too bothered one way or the other. Allowing a hero to join allies will allow heroes on flying mounts to zip around the table.
Deployment - exact details will depend on table size, but should we aim for 60cm apart, and 30cm in from the sides? With each army deployed in it's own third of the table.
As to Chaos joining Elves and Empire, I assume that Chaos has its own internal divisions, (or is just plain chaotic) so that one Chaos force may try to block another - and the Good guys will be happy to take advantage of this in-fighting, my enemy's enemy and all that.
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Hmmmm... I'm happy to go with whatever people like for the last three questions as I've not had time to think through the implications in any detail. Saying 'yes' to them might make for slightly more interaction between the three forces on each side (which sounds good but could result in delays and/or some imbalance). What do you guys do when you play large games? If you have a tried and tested way of doing this perhaps we should do the same to avoid any surprises?
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More news, my very good friend 'The other other Paul' might be joining us on Saturday. If he can make it would anyone be able to lend him a painted army (or it'll be unpainted Dwarfs)?
In the unlikely event that we end up with 7 players, we'll need a slight adjustment in terms of points. Something like this:
Team 1: 2500 + 2500 + 3000
Team 2: 2000 x 4
I'll get confirmation from our new recruits by Thursday....
Cheers - Paul
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I can bring along a High Elf army as well for the ooPaul - at this rate we will end up with Chaos vs Elves, with a few hangers on...
I'm not sure we have formalised our rules for allied forces. We often try to go for big games were each side is just one race, but with multiple commanders.
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That'd be very kind indeed. I'll let you know as soon as I have confirmation.
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I've just heard back from WHW and unfortunately we won't be able to shift the tables round so we're looking at a long thin table (4x18).
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I've just heard back from WHW and unfortunately we won't be able to shift the tables round so we're looking at a long thin table (4x12).
Suggestion ??!!
play in the length of the table !!
One army(group) deploys with a Van at the 3-4 mark, the main centered on the 6 and the rear on the 9-10. Brigading is OK, but units should be in "marching" order with no more then 2 units abreast.
Both the van and the rear my employ "outriders". This should be SINGLE units (anything other then Machine and Monster) which move parallel to the main army-column and in ANY GIVEN TURN may make on full move "forward", unless they spot an enemy in LOS and within 20cm or see other outriders in LOS fall back on the main army. IN either case they willl make an initiative move DIRECTLY towards the central axis of the table (where they expect the main army.
Attackers/ambushers divide their army in brigades and may start the game with 2 brigades AND their general on the table edge OR deployed in woods/buildup terrain within 20 cm of a table edge. For the purpose of deployment the table should be divided into 4' sections. section 0 being the edge where the ambushed army will try and leave the table. An attacker can opt to use any 2 adjacent zones for his original deployment and to bring on his reserves. Reserves need to be ordered onto the table, which can be done by any character already deployed (taking in applicable penalties) or by attaching a not-already deployed character with the brigade, in which case they character is placed on the desired entrypoint and the brigade can be brought on with one succesfull order.... ,
Should provide a lively game, and to spice things up.
consider giving some VP on objectives.
Put some carts, campfollowers or a herd of animals (loot) with the Rearguard (I suggest around 10 loot counters which should be 10 regular WM bases or round(ish) bases app. that size). These can be claimed by any of the ambushers stands that moves in contact with them. Claiming "coup" will count towards the ambushers VP in the following fashion: If a stand of an ambushing unit moves into contact with a "loot" marker take both that stand AND the lootmarker of the table. The value of the lootmarker is equal to the value of the stand that claims it! Note that the remainder of the unit (if any !!) will count as being "shortstanded" with all appropriate penalties !! If "taking coup" removes a nuit from the table, that unit WILL count against breakpoint.
Van units moved of edge #0 count as HALF their value towards their armies VP.
Main units moved of edge #0 count as FULL value towards their armies VPs
Rear units moved of edge #0 count as double their value.
Have fun with these 8) should you decide to use them !! Any feedback appriciated !!
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Hi Lex
Interesting idea. I'm not quite sure where you think the attackers would deploy, so I've done a little picture
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-vSsmTuDtrHQ/UKFeOYBk6SI/AAAAAAAABhQ/BzlJh-d6h3c/s706/battlemap.png)
I think I have the 3 blue defender positions right, along with the exit zone.
For the red attackers, would they be allowed the option of all of A1 to A6, or just one side e.g. A1 to A3 (or A4 to A6). Or can they deploy to the 2 short ends as well?
If they can deploy all of A1 to A6, then I think the attackers would deploy to A1 and A4, and perhaps A2. Allowing a concentration of force against D1, to eliminate it, before D3 can get anywhere near the fight.
Or do you think the 'mobile deployment' rules will limit the number of attackers in the early turns?
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I think that sounds cool and it's a good attempt to address the issue of the table shape.
This said, I have one concern (it may be that I'm misreading the scenario) - it looks like D1 is likely to be much quicker off the board than D3 which could mean that the game ends very quickly for one player (either killed or off board) while others remain to fight. Of course D1 could decide to stay and help out D2 and D3 but that would mean that the scenario was largely being ignored.
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On another note, our quest for a sixth player is now causing unexpected confusion! We now have three unconfirmed entrants (one of whom is in discussion with his club). All very cool really but it does make settling on a format rather awkward. I'm going to contact all concerned and ask for confirmation either way by Wednesday (after which point I think we need to know numbers so that we can finalise armies).
More soon...
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Paul, I think due to D1 units only counting half VPs if they escape, then it is advantageous for them to fight to block the attackers and let the others escape.
I've played one battle a bit like this before - and my attackers got over-involved in a fight with a single tough unit towards the front of the defenders, which allowed the rest to escape. It does come down to distances - both from the attackers to the defenders and for the defenders to escape. Looking at this layout I think D3 would have a lot of trouble getting down the table even with little interference from the enemy.
But the carts of loot add an interesting dimension to D3. Lex, a further question on these, when you say these are worth the points of the stand that captures them (which is a cool idea) do you mean 1/3 the unit cost, or something different?
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Good spot. I missed that bit.
So, if we went with this, which side looks best for the central role? Or do we randomise it? And who is up for making the loot counters...
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Map is OK like that. Assuming you have 3 attackers each nominate 2 adjacent zones including the short edges. Original forces on the nominated edge, reinforcements on the original or an adjecent edge. To spread the attackers put a -1 command roll when deploying in the same zone as the primary setup...??
Figure a price for teh attacker with the most "coup" which should bring their attention on the baggage with D3...
Also, you should logically have elements from all "allies" in the van, main aand rear... so no general will b off early...
The defending army will need to figure to get points by moving troops off piecemeal and sacrificing the baggage and rearguard. Attacker should get points "individualy" for som ecompetition
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I think Lex's idea is a cracking one if we have 6 players.
If we end up with 9 or 10 players though, I'd suggest a traditional 4-5 a side as we will actually need the width of the table then (it can still be a 'big game' though, rather than 5 little ones.
Basically, I'm flexible as there's cake and beer involved!
Dave
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I'm pondering the ten loot markers. I wonder if they might have some sort of time limit to be claimed to prevent a last-turn swoop when they're undefended and when being a stand down won't really impact on the effectiveness of the unit that claims them? Perhaps we could randomise this (I'm imagining that they're livestock and might wander off!). Something like:
Roll a D6 for each loot counter:
Turn 1 (can't leave)
Turn 2 (leaves on a 6)
Turn 3 (leaves on a 5+)
Turn 4 (leaves on a 4+)
Turn 5 (leaves automatically at end of turn)
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. Looking at this layout I think D3 would have a lot of trouble getting down the table even with little interference from the enemy.
But the carts of loot add an interesting dimension to D3. Lex, a further question on these, when you say these are worth the points of the stand that captures them (which is a cool idea) do you mean 1/3 the unit cost, or something different?
All bagage counters make an "homeback" move of 20 cm towards the nearest D2 character, and can be ordered by that character IF within 20 cm of it.
that should account for moving up the rear bits.
And on the value of loot, correct assumption 1/3th of unit value (assuming a 3 stand units). You could have some fun allowing monsters to capture loot (in which case a hydra would eg, take several cows for dinner)
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Wagons aren't a problem. They can get based a bit better by the weekend.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-sRiZ5m-Pn14/T2kEv3IlH7I/AAAAAAAAA9E/J9LtrlSQuZQ/s1024/IMG_1468.jpg)
Don't have any cows though.
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Now that is cool. This sounds like it'll work (and look) great.
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Some further questions:
1. Does the defender just get VPs for escaping? (to a max of 8750 if everyone got off) - I'm guessing that the defender would get kills as well?
2. Does the attacker get VPs for kills + baggage train capture (max 7500 + about 300ish)?
3. Can the defender win by breaking the attacker's army? (unlikely though this might be)?[/li][/list]
And a more general question - how does the scenario avoid high leadership attackers sending cavalry into the centre in the first turn with two orders? Six brigades of cavalry smacking into the flanks of the column sounds like a pretty nasty start point. Is the assumption that the reserves rule will make this an ill-advised tactic (it doesn't stop masses of Cav being on the table)? Terrain might help? Or, do the defenders get the first turn (which would be problematic as some might scoot across the table rather quickly with good orders).
Perhaps allowing the defenders to set up pointing in any direction might help here (giving the attacker the first turn)?
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1 ,2 ,3 I would say yes/yes/yes, the VP are additional to kill VP.
With each attacker allowed one brigade and the general on the table they will either be ON the table edge (and thus visible, probably by Outriders OR in hiding in terrain (and needing nasty orderdice to move out).
terrain would be advisable. And when setting up terrain assume that the defendig army WILL have been taking the safest possible route. so you should allow them to reposition some terrain to have a reasonable playing field.
Defender set up first. For the Outrider units take a number of tokens that is twice the number of units and place those as well.
Attacker setup.
Roll Dice to determine which tokens are actualy units of outriders. If NO units are in x (= 20cm) of attackers units then attacker gets 1st turn, if Outriders spot te enemy rhen defender goes first
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Saying 'yes' to them might make for slightly more interaction between the three forces on each side (which sounds good but could result in delays and/or some imbalance). What do you guys do when you play large games? If you have a tried and tested way of doing this perhaps we should do the same to avoid any surprises?
What you find is that initially people may think it a good idea to try and help an ally.
Reality is, that unless the opponent is suffering from leadership failures, all heroes and units will be dedicated to the player's role in the game. It is a rare occurance that a team mate is able to 'come to the rescue' unless they themselves have dealt with their own threat and do not leave themselves open - unless it helps to win the game with little doubt of course :)
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@Frogbear - I think you're probably right, it sounds cool but in reality it likely makes little difference.
If we go with Lex's scenario (which I think we should), then I suggest we go for this:
1) Units from one army can support those from another (given that combat results effect all involved units I'd think this makes sense)
2) Magic can only be case on units in the wizard's army
3) Heroes can only join units from their own army
This keeps things as simple as possible in a scenario with plenty going on.
I'd also add this rule to the original ones:
All three generals must be killed to force an army to withdraw (just to keep everyone in the game as long as possible). BUT also: generals killed count for double victory points (to represent their significance and to maintain the general caution in their use).
In this specific scenario I'd suggest that generals may not voluntarily exit the table until all units in their army have left.
And another question: what VPs do units that have lost stands get on leaving the table?
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Check my last note in thread. The D1 / D2 /D3 should not be 3 separate armies, but consist of units of all allies. This avoids the issue of D1 leaving "early" 8)
I would suggest NOT to allow mixed brigades, but if you do then the majority of troops should determine if a character is penalized when ordering them. Support should work as normal.
I suggest you use an ARMY BANNER, placed with D2 / main force, and loss of that + loss of general as a gamewinning situation
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I wouldn't suggest mixed brigades in terms of orders (orders must come from a character within the specific force), rather I'm suggesting that if units from two armies are involved in the same combat that they should be counted as supporting one another. This makes sense in terms of combat resolution but is probably quite unlikely to occur.
In terms of D1/2/3 I suggest the following addition to the deployment rules: 'no more than 2/3rds of the units (not points) in any one force may deploy in a single deployment zone. '
And an important note (that might require some tinkering). I messed up the table size in an earlier post. The table is three standard tables long so it's 4x18 rather than 4x12. The question is, do we stick with a shorter table (the other one will be very handy for storing reserves etc) or do we recalibrate the entry points (there's no reason why we couldn't use some of the third table rather than all of it). The issue here will be the speed needed to move across the board (and the time we've got to play isn't infinite).
In terms of generals - don't forget that there will be three per side. My concern is to avoid having any one player's army withdraw while the others play on (this is most likely to concern the defending side I think whose generals are likely to be rather more vulnerable than those in a standard game.
And another question:
Which of our two sides looks best suited to each role?
Chaos (2) + Dark Elves
High Elves (2) + Empire
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Here's a summary of the rules so far:
FORCES
This is a multi-player battle, involving two Armies each made up of three independent ‘Forces’. Each Force is 2500 points and selected using the min/max rules for 2000 point armies.
The Good Army (High Elves and Empire) are the defenders. The Evil Army (Chaos and Dark Elves) are the Attackers.
The following rules relate to the use of the combined Army:
1) Each Force functions independently with units ordered only by characters from the same Force and magic spells/items effecting only friendly units from the same Force as the magic user. The only exception to this is that units from one Force may support units from another force during combats (for clarity: units from two forces may not brigade).
2) The Army has a combined break point (add all the units in the three forces and divide by two, rounding up as normal). In other words, an individual Force will never break from the battle, it’s all or nothing.
3) Killing the general of a single Force will not result in that Force withdrawing. It is necessary to kill the two generals from the same Army to force the Army to withdraw (at this point the entire Army will withdraw from the battle).
THE BATTLEFIELD
The game is played lengthways on a 12 x 4 table. Terrain should be set up in a mutually agreeable manner.
SET UP
Defender deployment
The defending army deploys first. The army is set up in three deployment zones:
D1: Vanguard
D2: Main
D3: Rearguard
Units of the same force may be brigaded should be in "marching" order with no more then 2 units abreast. No more than 2/3rds of the units (not points) in any one force may deploy in a single deployment zone. '
Outriders: Both the vanguard and the rear may employ "outriders". These should be single units (anything other than Machine and Monster) which move parallel to the main army-column and in ANY GIVEN TURN may make on full move "forward", unless they spot an enemy in LOS and within 20cm or see other outriders in LOS fall back on the main army. IN either case they will make an initiative move DIRECTLY towards the central axis of the table (where they expect the main army.
Baggage train: The defending army deploys ten baggage train wagons. Five with the Main and five with the Rearguard. During the command phase Wagons may move 20cm directly towards the Defender’s exit table edge (they do not need to be given orders to do this). Alternatively they can be given individual orders (a miximum of two per turn). Wagons are treated as chariots for the purposes of terrain, they cannot be brigaded, and cannot be driven back by missile fire.
Attacker deployment
Attackers/ambushers divide their army in brigades and may start the game with 2 brigades AND their general on the table edge OR deployed in woods/built up terrain within 20 cm of a table edge. For the purpose of deployment the table should be divided into 4' sections. Section 0 being the edge where the ambushed army will try and leave the table. An attacker can opt to use any 2 adjacent zones for his original deployment and to bring on his reserves. Reserves need to be ordered onto the table, which can be done by any character already deployed (taking in applicable penalties) or by attaching a not-already deployed character with the brigade, in which case they character is placed on the desired entry point and the brigade can be brought on with one successful order.
Starting the game:
??????
GAME LENGTH
?????????
VICTORY CONDITIONS
Victory Points are awarded normally for units reduced to a single stand or destroyed, as described on page 63 of the Warmaster rulebook. The army with the highest Victory Points total at the end of the game is the winner.
Bonus Victory Points
Escape: The defenders gain additional Victory Points for each unit of two or more stands that exits the table (Units of one stand or flying units do not count).
• Vanguard units moved of edge #0 count as HALF their value towards their armies VP.
• Main units moved of edge #0 count as FULL value towards their armies VPs
• Rearguard units moved of edge #0 count as double their value.
Baggage Train: Wagons are captured by inflicting one hit on the wagon (which has no armour and which doesn't fight back). Units engaged with enemy troops cannot attack wagons. Once a wagon is captured, remove the model from the table. At the end of the game roll D6 for each wagon plundered:
1 = 0
2-3 = 100
4-5 = 200
6 = 300
Generals: generals killed count for double victory points but their deaths do not force an army to withdraw unless all three are killed (at which point the whole army withdraws. Generals may not voluntarily leave the table until all units in their army have left the table.
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All of this is up for discussion (I've tinkered a little using existing scenarios to fill in some gaps). To summarise the undecided sections (and bits I'm unsure of):
1) Game length?
2) Which side shall we have as attacker/defender? Perhaps Lex would like to pick?
3) Outriders - I'm not sure if this doesn't add unnecessary complication but I like the idea and it seems necessary to protect the flanks from instant attack. It might be easier to say: Up to six units may be set up as outriders (two per deployment zone. They should be set up more than 20 cms from the central columns. Enemy troops may not be deployed within 30cms of these outriders.
4) Who goes first? Lex's outrider rules make it pretty clear that the defender will go first (which is necessary I think). Perhaps the attacker should get a chance to 'steal the initiative' on a D6 roll of 6,otherwise it's defender first.?
5) Once 2 is decided we might want a little fluff and a name for the battle... Anyone feeling creative?
I'll keep amending my word doc version of this and will share it with anyone who wants to see it (and aim to finalize it by Thursday night).
EDIT: Just had confirmation that the Warseer player can't make it. The TWF guys are being suspiciously silent, so it looks like it'll be 5 or six of us playing this scenario.
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In terms of generals - don't forget that there will be three per side. My concern is to avoid having any one player's army withdraw while the others play on (this is most likely to concern the defending side I think whose generals are likely to be rather more vulnerable than those in a standard game.
That is why I suggested using an Army Banner (or Banners) stand in the Main (D2) area that works like the "general down" end of game objective
And another question:
Which of our two sides looks best suited to each role?
Chaos (2) + Dark Elves
High Elves (2) + Empire
I would probably go with the HE and Empire being the defenders......
Chaos and DE "warbands" comming on stage during the game ready to "loot" will have a proper feel to it (if you do that, remember that when defining brigades all the rules about brigading stand !! (Note to self: need to adjust the idea when faced with attacking skaven !!
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I think the feel is right (Chaos as attacker).
I wonder if we need to consider a way of keeping high command cavalry on the table past turn one (it'd take 3 orders to get off). Perhaps (a) allow a small force of attackers to set up on the exit board edge, (b) simply say that no-one can leave on turn one?
This said, if all the cavalry from one army pony off into the distance the remainder will be easy pickings so perhaps it's not needed.
Can you say more about your flag idea? Currently I'd say that killing two generals would break an army (the whole army), it might be easier than working in further rules.
Edit: I've added in the rules for the ways the many armies interact into the main rules post.
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Remember that a LOT of Cav will / should be employed as outriders too !! and those are supposed to fall back on the main army when spotting enemies.....
Army banner(s). Just create a small stand (coin) that signifies the "core" of the army. You could use a tent with a table and a flag, or simply some banners stuck in the ground etc. This stand is the "focal" point of the defenders, similar to a bagage token, but with the MAIN instead of the rear, and ALWAYS attached to a unit.
Give you "flagguard"an appropriate bonus.....
And "losing the flag" end the game like when a general is killed.
Easy peasy
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ALWAYS attached to a unit
That does sound rather easy to kill, not attaching the general to units is the tactic that I usually employ in order to keep them alive. Is the assumption that both sides would have such a thing?
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Lots of thinking gone on today!!
I think the Army banner idea is unnecessary, and like Paul think that if it has to be attached to a unit it will be too easy to kill.
I like the idea that the loss of the 2nd general causes the whole allied army to flee.
I think 12x4 should be fine size wise - but having some extra space at the ends for casualties, books etc would be good.
I like the no more than 2/3 of a force in each of the defender zones.
Happy for Lex to choose which armies go where. I think it is best we decide this ahead of time to speed things up on the day.
I do like the idea of the convoy style scenario - but I'm not sure about the points, as they seem to favour the defender a lot.
The attacker gets VP for killed enemies and for the baggage. Baggage will only had 150 to 300 pts
The defender gets VP for killed enemies and for escaped units. Escaped units could add lots of points in this size of game. 3 knights off table, would be more than the baggage can give.
Other thoughts on this?? Perhaps the Defender only gets half-points for killing enemy units? Does the defender have any penalty for loosing the baggage, otherwise its probably worth sacrificing it just to get troops off the table. Maybe the baggage is the only bonus points part with each wagon worth 100pts but only when its moved off table (any edge for the attackers, edge 0 for the defenders?)
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Played similar type of game deployed in the middle of a table defending, by turn 2 I was losing horribly as the attacker could reach me in his first turn. I would like to see no combat on turn 1 but feel to act turn 2onwards
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I must admit that I don't feel qualified to comment on the VP distribution as almost (if not all) my games have been the standard battle. But, I agree that it looks rather 'asymmetrical' (in terms of winning I'd probably rather be the defender in this). I guess the key to these VPs is how difficult it is for the defender to escape and it's this I'm not sure about.
Looking at the distances concerned it is quite hard for the defender to get units off from D3 and D2.
D3 = move of 270cm
D2 = move of 180cm
D1 = move of 90cm
So, I'd expect that D3 will struggle to get to the end and D2 might be a bit of a stretch (9 moves for infantry). D1 seems pretty easy for cav + command 10 + 'magic items of command improvement'. As such I'd guess that the defender could realistically bag around 1250 VPs by the end of the game while the Attacker gets about 300.
Would changing the rules for baggage help? How about:
Each baggage train counter captured gives the attacker 100 points (for a max of 1000). AND not removing stands that claim them?
Or, we could borrow the VP table from 'Wagon over Axe Bite Pass' (p. 85 main rulebook):
At the end of the game roll D6 for each wagon plundered:
1 = 0
2-3 = 100
4-5 = 200
6 = 300
Wagons captured by inflicting one hit on the wagon (which has no armour and which doesn't fight back). Units engaged with enemy troops cannon attack wagons.
Max VPs would be 3000, average (if all captured) would be about 1500.
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Played similar type of game deployed in the middle of a table defending, by turn 2 I was losing horribly as the attacker could reach me in his first turn. I would like to see no combat on turn 1 but feel to act turn 2onwards
This comment makes the VPs seem more reasonable but it also suggests that the best tactic would simply be for the defender to run as fast as possible.
But, Lex's scenario does reduce the number of troops available to the attacker, would this (+ outriders) help enough?
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Markyparky is right. He is referring to the one and only "awful" game of Warmaster anyone in our group has ever had. The dwarfs set up in a laager in the middle of the table. The chaos came on from the sides.
In turn 1 the chaos dragon ogres and knights did a double move and had absolutly SMASHED one side of the dwarven forces and the game was virtually won before the dwarves could even move.......
It was a bit lucky but not insanely lucky.....
My suggestion is that the forces should start off at least 61 cm apart on deployment? (and I'm a Chaos player with ultra heavy cavalry so am very happy to be shouted down on this one!)
Dave
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Sadly that wouldn't be possible (or it'd be difficult), with a table 120 cm wide and units in the middle taking 8cm of the space + the units starting on the back line will likely have their frontage between 2 and 6 cm in we'd be hard pushed to get the distance sorted. Add in the outriders who as single units are likely to be destroyed and Advance moves make it even easier to get to the centre.
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Horsies dont go into terrain, so they set-up on the edge of the board. Which means that (unless VERY unlucky) the Defender WILL spot the ambush and have first turn !!
I concur that the VP on the bagage would profit from the change to the suggested scenario. I probably still rule that any unit claiming "loot" would loose a stand, and dont actualy go luggin the luggage over the table to get it off. 8)
We did play similar scenarios before, in the majority of games the defender ends up spotting the ambush and gettin first turn, and (most) outriders manage to get back or end up brigading.
When sticking to a "historical" setup for Van, Main, Rear the majority of your van will be cavalry/chariots and light infantry, the main would mainly be (heavy) infantry and the rear is a goodly mix. And yes, where is DOES make sense to triplemove all your (expensive) cav of, it will only be worth half points !! and the defender will loose valuable assets for Winning the game. Also, with less units to protect them, your general(s) will become progressivly more vulnerable...
The proof is in the eating of Da Puddin........
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Righty ho - better get sharpening and greasing up those chaos knight horns and lances then boys :)
Thats a challenge to the van of the defenders! Wonder if we could wipe them out completely inside two turns!
(It'll all go horribly wrong now and the cavalry will refuse to move and then be mown down like chaff)
Dave
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Hi All, I've updated the summary above once again. I hope it reflects what people are saying!
Which do you prefer of the Outrider rules?
Both the vanguard and the rear may employ "outriders". These should be single units (anything other than Machine and Monster) which move parallel to the main army-column and in ANY GIVEN TURN may make on full move "forward", unless they spot an enemy in LOS and within 20cm or see other outriders in LOS fall back on the main army. IN either case they will make an initiative move DIRECTLY towards the central axis of the table (where they expect the main army.
or
Up to six units may be set up as outriders (two per deployment zone. They should be set up more than 20 cms from the central columns. Enemy troops may not be deployed within 30cms of these outriders. Before the first turn these units may make a single scout move (use the Fallback rules). In subsequent turns the outrider units are given orders normally in the command phase.
As this version removes the 'Who goes first' mechanism it might be necessary to say: Defender goes first unless the Attacker can roll a 6 on a D6 to steal the initiative.
Oh, and good news, the other other Paul has confirmed (he can stay until 5). I'd be grateful if one of the Good Guys would select an army list and post it here? (and we'll need to take you up on the kind offer of providing the models too).
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deploy counters and roll for which ones turn into outriders will force the attacker to consider placement.....
But either will work..
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Good news about ooPaul. I will do a High Elf list for him tonight.
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Here is the second contingent of Elves
if ooPaul want's to change it then I have figures for pretty much any choices
Warmaster Army Selector
High Elf Tournament Army, 2500 points
Warmaster Trial Armies Compendium 2009
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240 - 4 Spearmen
300 - 4 Archers
660 - 6 Silver Helms
270 - 3 Reavers
140 - 2 Giant Eagles
110 - 2 Elven Bolt Thrower
210 - 1 General
- 1 Orb of Majesty (30)
380 - 2 Hero
- 2 Dragon (200)
- 1 Sword of Cleaving (10)
- 1 Sword of Might (10)
190 - 2 Wizard
- 1 Rod of Repetition (10)
----------------------------------------------------------------
2500 - 21/11
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Thanks, I've sent it over. I'm sure he won't want to change anything at all.
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Here's the latest version of the rules pack:
FORCES
This is a multi-player battle, involving two Armies each made up of three independent ‘Forces’. Each Force is 2500 points and selected using the min/max rules for 2000 point armies.
The Good Army (High Elves and Empire) are the defenders. The Evil Army (Chaos and Dark Elves) are the Attackers.
The following rules relate to the use of the combined Army:
1) Each Force functions independently with units ordered only by characters from the same Force and magic spells/items effecting only friendly units from the same Force as the magic user. The only exception to this is that units from one Force may support units from another force during combats (for clarity: units from two forces may not brigade).
2) The Army has a combined break point (add all the units in the three forces and divide by two, rounding up as normal). In other words, an individual Force will never break from the battle, it’s all or nothing.
3) Killing the general of a single Force will not result in that Force withdrawing. It is necessary to kill the two generals from the same Army to force the Army to withdraw (at this point the entire Army will withdraw from the battle).
THE BATTLEFIELD
The game is played lengthways on a 12 x 4 table. Terrain should be set up in a mutually agreeable manner.
Defender deployment
The defending Army deploys first. The army is set up in three deployment zones:
D1: Vanguard
D2: Main
D3: Rearguard
Units of the same Force may be brigaded and should be in "marching" order with no more then 2 units abreast. No more than 2/3rds of the units (not points) in any one force may deploy in a single deployment zone. '
Outriders: Both the vanguard and the rear may employ up to four units each as "Outriders". These should be single units (anything other than Machine and Monster). To place outriders, take a number of tokens that is twice the number of outriders selected and place them on the table (within 30cms of at least one stand in D2 or D3). Note down which represent outrider units and which are ‘bluffs’. The counters are replaced with units once after the attacker has deployed.
Outriders move parallel to the main army-column and in ANY GIVEN TURN may make one full move "forward", unless they spot an enemy (in LOS and within 20cm) or see other outriders in LOS fall back on the main army. IN either case they will make a initiative move DIRECTLY towards the central axis of the table (selecting their facing at the end of the move).
Baggage train: The defending army deploys ten baggage train wagons. Five with the Main and five with the Rearguard. During the command phase Wagons may move 20cm directly towards the Defender’s exit table edge (they do not need to be given orders to do this). Alternatively they can be given individual orders (a maximum of two per turn). Wagons are treated as chariots for the purposes of terrain, they cannot be brigaded, and cannot be driven back by missile fire.
Attacker deployment
Attackers/ambushers divide their army in brigades and may start the game with 2 brigades AND their general on the table edge OR deployed in woods/built up terrain within 20 cm of a table edge. For the purpose of deployment the table should be divided into 4' sections. Section 0 being the edge where the ambushed army will try and leave the table. An attacker can opt to use any 2 adjacent zones for his original deployment and to bring on his reserves. Reserves need to be ordered onto the table, which can be done by any character already deployed (taking in applicable penalties) or by attaching a not-already deployed character with the brigade, in which case they character is placed on the desired entry point and the brigade can be brought on with one successful order.
Starting the game:
If no Defending outrider units are in 20cm of a unit in the attacking Army then Attacker gets 1st turn, if Outriders spot the enemy then Defender goes first
GAME LENGTH
As long as we have.
VICTORY CONDITIONS
Victory Points are awarded normally for units reduced to a single stand or destroyed, as described on page 63 of the Warmaster rulebook. The army with the highest Victory Points total at the end of the game is the winner.
Bonus Victory Points
Escape: The defenders gain additional Victory Points for each unit of two or more stands that exits the table (Units of one stand or flying units do not count).
• Vanguard units moved of edge #0 count as HALF their value towards their armies VP.
• Main units moved of edge #0 count as FULL value towards their armies VPs
• Rearguard units moved of edge #0 count as double their value.
Baggage Train: Wagons are captured by inflicting one hit on the wagon (which has no armour and which doesn't fight back). Units engaged with enemy troops cannot attack wagons. Once a wagon is captured, remove the model from the table. At the end of the game roll D6 for each wagon plundered:
1 = 0
2-3 = 100
4-5 = 200
6 = 300
Generals: generals killed count for double victory points but their deaths do not force an army to withdraw unless all three are killed (at which point the whole army withdraws. Generals may not voluntarily leave the table until all units in their army have left the table.
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Oh, and on the above, feel free to comment/suggest stuff. I'll finalize it all tonight and will email it to all concerned (I'll also bring printed copies along). Of course, we may decide to just play a 'normal but big' game and that option can be kept open until we meet on Saturday.
I'd also suggest/request that everyone bring along army lists for a couple of points value armies (2000, 2500 at least) and maybe extra figures too. There's always the chance we'll have a last minute cancellation (though I hope not) and/or surprise arrivals (though this is unlikely). We might also finish very quickly if we go with a scenario (who knows what'll happen!) and so we might have time for a smaller game afterwards.
So, last minute suggestions/corrections please (my current concern is with 'who goes first' and the use of 'outriders', I'm not sure if it doesn't actually disadvantage the defender to send out scouts who might get smashed in combat and allow advance moves onto the main army).
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(within 30cms of at least one stand in D2 or D3
Make that "20 cm or more away from any table edge". Should make spotting the ambush a bit more easy and reduce the overrun result risk !
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Good spot, I'll amend.
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Bad news, we're a Paul down. The first other Pauls family has been struck by a horrible bug. With his wife and eldest both ill it's really unlikely he will make it.
If we end up a five, how about the other other Paul joins the evil side as dark elves and the good guys expand their armies to 3750 each?
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Paul, If you can get the DE figures off of one Paul for the other Paul then that's fine. Mark and me can bring bigger armies.
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I've got the dark elves packed, so hopefully we'll have what we need.
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Yes, we don't want to shrink the armies as we do want the game to last a whole day.
It's a bit starnge actually - we have 4 players from the North West of England all going down to Lenton to play a 5 man game of warmaster - we could have played it round mine in Chorley and save a lot on petrol/train fare.
Still, it'll be good to see GW central again, I haven't been there for years!
Dave
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Yep, it's fair to say that this isn't quite going to plan! Still, I'm looking forward to hanging out in GWs castle for a day.
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If i'd know sooner I would have tried to make this... as it is it's too short notice and i am at a 40th birthday 2moro so can't make it... There probably would have been 3 of us from the NW too ::)
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Hey guys Vos mentioned the original concept of gaming and cakes, just to let you know I have pulled out the stops and have just finished baking my own cakes (my wife's recipe) apple dappie muffins, so please don't forget to bring your cakes along for the group to share. Looking forward to it and yes Forbes I will bring along all my high elves just in case we need more goodies.
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Well done Mark - I'll enjoy scoffing the lot tomorrow! I think I'll be raiding Mr Kipling's factory tomorrow am for a few French Fancies and some Battenburg!
The above post but one makes me think we might think about organising a MASSIVE game of Warmaster somewhere in the North West next year. Somewhere with lots of tables that we can hire for the weekend.......
I'm thinking 6 players a side, 30K a side scale games here.... We have the painted figures for games this size just within our group! We would just need another 5 or 6 players. Multiple tables and a weekend of campaigning......
I'll get thinking....
Dave
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I realise now that I shouldn't have let my 5-year old son pick cakes for me, thank goodness someone's done a better job!
On the playing in NW thing, it sounds like a good cake-time chat to me - I've got a few ideas I'd like to run past you all.
See you soon,
Paul
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Thanks to everyone for coming along today, I had a great time and hope we can do something similar before too long, and this time the forces of evil will be victorious! Yes, that means we lost, but only just.
It was an epic clash with 7500 points a side and ended with Chaos breaking in turn 6 (our BP was 28) while the combined force of Empire and Elves held the field with 33 (I think) units killed against their BP of 36. Here's a pretty rubbish picture of the battlefield:
(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h291/Levinas/Warmaster/P1000941.jpg)
Just out of shot, lots of cakes including Markyparky's fantastic homebaking (for which I we were prepared to gift the good guys the win - and this is why they won and not, Forbes and he think, because they were better than us...)
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Oh, and we're on the Warhammer World Facebook page!
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=514569355229216&set=a.218213154864839.65352.212614545424700&type=3&theater (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=514569355229216&set=a.218213154864839.65352.212614545424700&type=3&theater)
Very nice comments from the WHW team (though I wish I'd shuffled out of shot!)
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Great! Thanks for sharing. Seems like a really awesome game! sorry for not could gather you.
glad you all could make it!
best wishes
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It was a good day out! Thanks to Paul for organising the day. It was a great battle, which was in the balance much of the game. And as always with a big game, you get quite focused on your bit of the battle field, while stuff just happens on the other side.
The Chaos cavalry smashed into the middle of my Empire line and caused much havoc - and even though this left them open to much shooting enough stands were left to continue to cause problems for the whole game. My grand flanking move (shown in the photo) started so well, then stalled, and stalled, eventually managing to get the units of mauraders who were their target. The refused flank on the other side allowed the High Elves to sweep round, while the Dark Elves in the middle stuttered forwards in the early turns, but the cold ones caused some problems latter in the game.
WHW is very impressive - but yesterday it was really busy due to the WHFB competition going on, and was really quite noisy, so it was quite hard to chat across the table.
It does seem that more big WM games in the NW would be sensible - as we all came from 30miles of Chorley to play in Nottingham.
Nice to see the prime place of the Facebook page - and the positive comments - seems there are lots of people who like warmaster, but struggle to find opponents. There was also lots of interest from GW staff and other players during the day.
I'll get my photos off my phone later today and post them.
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I really enjoyed the day. Thanks to Paul for organising and thanks to Mark for the driving! (and for the home made cake!).
The forces of Evil lost..... but only just. (Arbaal the Undefeated except on Tuesdays and Saturdays now).
I was encouraged by the number of players and GW staff who showed positive interest in the game.
I think we could definitely swing an even bigger game with more forces and players if we went local and arranged it well in advance.....
Dave
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A couple of photos, unfortunately the combination of phone camera and average lighting don't give the best quality photos
The 'evil' commanders plot their tactics
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-GQJ9880FeF8/UKjDpfMljeI/AAAAAAAABkA/z1BHdx0t1Nc/s1024/IMG_0383.jpg)
The table, with ample evidence of cakes
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-N0veJKEnxEs/UKjDrDivzYI/AAAAAAAABkI/A-DLZmFUJZ0/s1024/IMG_0384.jpg)
Chaos advances on the Empire line
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-FBTU8Fb9HR4/UKjDw7qU96I/AAAAAAAABkg/T88Hh3nTORM/s1024/IMG_0387.jpg)
Close-up of Empire deployment
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-sv6zW4oNJmk/UKjDtH6zXTI/AAAAAAAABkQ/50O87At1Pak/s1024/IMG_0385.jpg)
High Elves advance on the left flank
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-9U8qURJnxJU/UKjDuxa_t2I/AAAAAAAABkY/Z4J1bHbUyWs/s1024/IMG_0386.jpg)
A few more are in the web album https://picasaweb.google.com/114091746313103705211/WHWNov201202?authuser=0&feat=directlink including Dave eating the aptly named Dave's Big Breakfast
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An army marches on it's stomach don't you know!
Dave
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Great photos Forbes, much better than mine.
You can see that Empire flank attack in the third picture down, those four units of Empire Cavalry galloped across the board in turn one/two (not sure which) and then waited until turn five to get the charge off (what you can't see here are the three wizards who came along to help and who repeatedly failed to get their magic moves going). Unfortunately my Chaos Marauders were equally lacking in motivation and waited patiently for for the Empire heroes (in the end it took two heroes and three wizards!) to get their men moving and ended up getting smashed in the side as expected, but the lack of movement for so many turns prevented the Empire rolling up the Chaos flank.
I'm certainly up for arranging or attending another meeting, and suggest we meet in the NW Gaming Centre in Stockport. Perhaps we could scout it out first before arranging a super-sized event (I'd suggest some time in February).
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Good of you to mention my amazing gang of 3 wizards. They started the game OK, but then it all went a bit pear shaped.
Turn 3 I think, I moved them all carefully into position, to Voice of Command the cavalry into the Dark Elves - did all my shooting, fought combats, you started your turn, and I remembered that I had completely forgotten to attempt to cast spells - this was really rather annoying, especially as I only had myself to blame. But as the next two turns showed it probably didn't matter, as in the next 6 attempts to cast Voice of Command they managed 1 paltry success, on the 6th attempt.
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Great battle!! very nice pics too!! :)
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Great to see so many painted WM figures on the table, i like the 10mm terrain as well.
Thanks for the pics, looked like a good game :)
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The above post but one makes me think we might think about organising a MASSIVE game of Warmaster somewhere in the North West next year. Somewhere with lots of tables that we can hire for the weekend.......
I'm thinking 6 players a side, 30K a side scale games here.... We have the painted figures for games this size just within our group! We would just need another 5 or 6 players. Multiple tables and a weekend of campaigning......
I'll get thinking....
Dave
Hmmm, Epic :)
If it's reasonably local for Liverpool our group has 6 regular players with more than a dozen armies between us. None of those hits the 5000pt mark though (i doubt any are much more than 3000pt as we almost always play 2000pt armies)
Our local gaming Cafe has loads of space (and willingness) to accomadate a such monster table and I know a friendly hotel manager who may well be able to offer good deals on accomodation should it be needed ;)
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If we held a meet at the NW Gaming Centre would that be local enough? Liverpool to Stockport is an hour by train and about the same from Chorley I think. Or we could maybe head over to Liverpool if you fancy setting something up.
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I've linked this thread to friends and 1 (stumpycat) has already expressed interest.... and i am pretty sure at least 1 of the others will be a yes. 2 work weekends though and might find this a bit of a problem :(
Still... I will talk to thwe others and hopefully have a good idea of who is up for carnage in the new year. May I suggest 10-15,000 a side rather than 30,000? More likely to finish the game and (for us at least) more likely that each player can field the designated points. I would also suggest that teams are drawn randomly on the day to make it more friendly rivalry than the 'us against them' that competetive games between strangers often turn into ;)
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Chorley to Liverpool is no different time or distance wise than Chorley to Stockport so it doesn't make much difference to the chorley group! It makes sense to go where the most players are based. Unless we're selling tickets and people are committing well in advance, it may be difficult to book somewhere that is going to charge. Are we thinking 1 day or 2 day event? I could try and set something up in Chorley?
Yes, I was thinking 5K per player is enough to control in a day's battling and still get a chance of reaching a conclusion. We can field the following painted 5 K forces now: two 5K High Elf armies, two 5K Orc and Goblin armies and two 5K Chaos Armies, one Araby 5K army, one 5K Empire army, one 5K Brettonian army (nearly). We have all the other armies covered too but not all fully painted or quite as big in size.
I would like to go for a themed battle e.g. we 'oversize' a game like the siege of Praag from one of the warmaster mags. Yes, I agree we want 'split' teams.
I suggest we all go back to our respective grouops and get preferences and rough numbers.
Dave
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I'm not really fussed where we meet. Stockport is very local to me but only to me so doesn't cater for the majority of players and therefore doesn't make that much sense.
My preferences are for one day events (as a parent of two young children it's easier to get the time!) but if people are up for a two-dayer it would be cool and might attract people from overseas/further afield.
In terms of format, I really enjoyed our big game (I'm not sure I'd have had any more fun playing with a larger army, commanding 2500 points was fine for me). It would be good if something could be engineered to encourage a little more mingling in terms of the armies (table shape perhaps)? Our game was just small enough to allow for engagement across the whole table (or chatting at least). One more player per side and I'd have had no idea what was happening with at least one army.
I suggest that someone from either the Liverpool or Chorley posse takes this on as organiser and kicks off a new thread.
I'd also (were I doing it again), cast a wider net than this forum, there are players on The Warhammer Forum and on Warseer who expressed an interest.