Specialist Arms Forum
Specialist Games General Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Geep on November 12, 2015, 02:59:55 AM
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I'm having trouble believing this, but apparently quite a few GW stores are posting this on their websites:
https://www.facebook.com/GWBelconnen/photos/a.672758389489940.1073741829.660073050758474/854745547957889/?type=3 (https://www.facebook.com/GWBelconnen/photos/a.672758389489940.1073741829.660073050758474/854745547957889/?type=3)
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Well it seems that it might be back after all!
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Just seen this on two GW store FB pages and its all over Dakka. I hope its true but wont believe it until I see it
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I really hope they focus on models, and models alone. Reprinting old rulebooks is fine too. Unfortunately I don't trust GW making new games- they have shed every decent game developer they once had.
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Believe it when I see it. And then we probably will see sigmarines in Mordheim, on the pitch and in Warmaster... Meh.
Pessimist? Me? ;)
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It looks ridiculously amateurish and mispells 'Armageddon'... :/
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Don't underestimate GW though, they've been known to misspell their own game names in court...
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Supposedly that 'poster' was made in-store by the GW Belconnen manager (Belconnen being in Canberra, Australia)- so the misspelling and all is just his personal lack of education :p
The general message though is being repeated by GW stores Australia wide, and is supposed to be being confirmed for overseas sources now (ie. It's a timed announcement, and in this one small way Australia is actually ahead of most of the rest of the world).
Other people have pointed out that Warmaster, Mordheim, or any other game set in the 'old world' isn't mentioned yet. Hopefully that's coincidence.
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Call me cynical but....
I was reading on this forum about IP infringement rules being different in the USA as compared to the UK/Europe.
It might be they need to release/support for a short time [a very short time] in order to continue their Cease and desist policies.
Just like the one off release of Space Hulk.
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That wouldn't surprise me at all- but I think there's something like a 20 year window where they can ignore that IP, which is why Space Hulk hit when it did. It's much earlier than that for most SG games.
Regardless, if they do re-release any of the rarer items (eg. any of the Warmaster armies, other than the 6 core ones) I can only imagine it would be good for us. Prices will no doubt be crazy, but prices are already beyond crazy for things like Araby and Daemons.
GW will continue their C&D tactics until the end of time, and ignoring them and getting around the issue is usually easy. At least we may be getting a small bonus from it here.
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ALL the GW fantasy computer games (Blood Bowl, Man O War, Mordheim, Vermintide, Total War) are based in the Old World, not the Age of Sigmar.
Of those, fully FOUR of them have been announced AFTER Age of Sigmar. The Old World is too valuable an IP to throw away so I wouldn't be too worred about Sigmarines. All the people our age who are the core market for that world have been catered for in that respect and I wouldn't put it past them to do that model wise if they were really bringing back such kinds of games.
I think it makes sense to keep The Old World around just in the same way that there is now Warhammer 30k and 40k. 30k had been a specialist boutique thing for years but now with Betrayal at Calth it will actually be front and centre in plastic, two eras for the same "universe".
Why not the same for Fantasy? Sigmarines and super simple rules for the kiddies and casual players, Old World for the grognards with disposable income but more specialised tastes?
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For one... the make more of their GAMING licences then they would make from a year of SG-Warmaster sales....
And BECAUSE the games are licensed, it will be bad practice to add stuff to the background they are licenced off...
But I am a Natural Born Pessemistic when it comes down to WM revival
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Surprisingly, this is going to happen
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Surprisingly, this is going to happen
So, other sources (Europe/US) have confirmed this ?
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I live in Nottingham. I know lots of people that work at GW
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I live in Nottingham. I know lots of people that work at GW
Still.... the news from down under could/should have been echoed by an official press statement....... more so for a stockholder....... ::)
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I live in Nottingham. I know lots of people that work at GW
Mind you, not saying you are not right, or in the know.... just that AFAWKRN it is not been backed by any official release.
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It's been backed by Hastings on Warseer, who's a pretty reliable rumour-monger. He's being cryptic though- it may be that stand-alone boxed games will be released, rather than a full reintroduction of what has gone before.
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If it's FW specifically - I don't think they would do boxed sets as that is always plastic. It all depends on whether this is 100% for "Fanatics" like us as we were called in the day, or something that is going to see acknowledgement in White Dwarf / stores.
Mind you though... Even the modern White Dwarf is always plugging FW and Black Library, way more than it used to, I think.
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I agree that it is surprising there haven't been releases of data from shops or corporate bodies as the sun has risen over the continents beyond the land of OZ.
Could be someone has jumped the gun, a new managerial vacancy in a shop in OZ or reprimand if he is lucky.
However until it's confirmed from another source..................
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Mark I think the only thing that would get you a reprimand in a GW nowdays is if you don't light the requisite number of candles for the shareholders at the money shrine, or let your photo of Dear Leader Kirby get dusty.
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I've already said the BFG forum that I want this to happen, but until I see in writing (Properly this time!) I just can't bring myself to believe it.
For the old world stuff...they killed the world! I'm sorry, but I just can't see it happening. Yes they've got some computer games incoming, but these were licensed out before AoS hit.
I really think GW pulled the plug on SG to license them out as computer games instead, to generate interest for their main games at no cost to themselves.
The very idea of Sigmarines in BB or Mordheim....http://www.nooooooooooooooo.com/
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I'm guessing that Blood Bowl would be the easiest for them as it could be a one off with two plastic teams and a manual with encouragement to go kitbash all the other races.
Necromunda would be a bit harder for them as the original was defined by the cardboard terrain, and they have completely sworn that off as they want everyones' battlefield to be 100% plastic.
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The game-in-a-box route then? Any confirmation as to whether FW would expand the ranges?
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I'm guessing that Blood Bowl would be the easiest for them as it could be a one off with two plastic teams and a manual with encouragement to go kitbash all the other races.
Necromunda would be a bit harder for them as the original was defined by the cardboard terrain, and they have completely sworn that off as they want everyones' battlefield to be 100% plastic.
Well, GW are doing board games again, so having cardboard elements back in Necromunda might not even be that far fetched...
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I've removed a couple of posts for not containing any content.
I do not believe that Specialist Games will return in the way in which we understand them. There are no rules and no models, and so GW wouldn't think that it made business sense to bring back the games from the dead, even though others, like a number of us here, may disagree.
It's been backed by Hastings on Warseer, who's a pretty reliable rumour-monger. He's being cryptic though- it may be that stand-alone boxed games will be released, rather than a full reintroduction of what has gone before.
This is what I believe will happen, if anything transpires. One off boxed games à la Dreadfleet is the most likely way in which they would release or re-release any of the games we know and love.
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It's weird, but consider this, about Epic, we had this evolution:
Adeptus Titanicus - Space Marine - Space Marine 2nd. - Titan Legions - Epic 40k - Epic: Armageddon
It started out as plastic box sets and the majority of your army could be built with those £5 army boxes back in the 2nd ed. days. It was the later editions from 40k onward which moved all the vehicles to metal.
If they could just make a few sprues, you could have most of the infantry and small vehicles variants packaged up neatly in cardboard boxes like that all over again.
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...If they could just make a few sprues, you could have most of the infantry and small vehicles variants packaged up neatly in cardboard boxes like that all over again.
...and, being GW, charge metal prices for the plastic.
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Spoke to a couple of former GW employees - they confirmed that the rumours appeared on Monday around Nottingham though its all short on detail. Apparently a senior manager responsible for the SG "back in the day" has taken control and wants to reinstate which mayjust mean that we get re-releases of the original games rather than the Dreadfleet one offs. Still not holding my breath for Warmaster (worse luck), I reckon its more likely to be Man O War, BFG and Epic. Still I'm hoping.....
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This has been confirmed on the Warhammer app, though there's not much detail at the moment.
(http://i.imgur.com/0XIQx7Z.jpg)
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Well the Horus Heresy stuff is tempting me back into 40K (well 30K actually) and some of the grognards on warseer seem to be suggesting that Epic is indeed coming back. It will be a big box followed by individual releases and its going to be in plastic and set in the 30K universe, like original space marine with updated rules.
Forgeworld will be 'in charge' of the new specialist team.
All good stuff. Of course it'd be even better if they also brought Warmaster back but I'm not holding my breath on that one.
Let the wallets, err I mean galaxy burn!
Dave
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Concur with the above. They seem to be looking for 40k synergies so while WM players should be happy for the other Specialist Gamers, they should assume that WM is a long way from the front of this new queue. But, being British, I am conditioned not to complain about long queues ...
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"Every single hobbyist around the world is jumping up and down with excitement and you should be too!" Really? The days when GW was just about the only game in town (no pun intended) for fantasy/sci-fi wargaming are long gone.
I guess they'll release the first four games mentioned, see how it goes and then either release more or kill it all off. Again.
It will all depend on their pricing. If they chose to be greedy and charge extortionate prices, it won't end well. There are other manufacturers out there, no matter how much GW might want us to believe their hype.
Joyous hysteria and hype will only go so far - cold, hard cash will say how successful this will be.
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Yeah they aren't doing warmaster. It's just the 28mm games, plus battlefleet gothic.
I'm ok with that ;D
But warmaster would be a huge pain to do again, i was a mould maker in GW the first time they made warmaster ........ not easy
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Was it the 40mm long strips? I haven't heard any complaints from my caster with the 2-man strips.
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Was it the 40mm long strips? I haven't heard any complaints from my caster with the 2-man strips.
It's the scale. Ideally the weapons need to be 10mm scale, with thin shields and tiny holes between arms and weapons etc.
When Colin got a job in the studio he said to us "don't worry, i know mouldmaking, you won't get difficult masters from me!!" ....... his first project was warmaster lol
Also with the amount of castings that GW produces it puts a strain on the masters, and they need to be recast, which puts a strain on the master moulds. I know a lot of the master moulds were on their last legs, so it wouldn't be as easy as "let's just keep the range we have, and expand on that with races we haven't done before". You'd have to redo everything.
At the time we were using black rubber, which i personally think is worse then the silicone moulds that most companies use nowadays.
This whole project is run by Tony Cottrell (dunno if he's known?) .... Head of Forge World ... basically he is very much into 40k, not that bothered about fantasy setting (WHFB, WM etc)
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Gotcha. You wouldn't happen to have any contact info for WM sculptors that now do freelance work now, would you? I figure that would be a good thing for me to have for future projects.
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Gotcha. You wouldn't happen to have any contact info for WM sculptors that now do freelance work now, would you? I figure that would be a good thing for me to have for future projects.
WM sculptors? no ............. I do know quite a few sculptors, but none of them make WM figures.
I thought there was someone on here that makes the PolarFox range? they look great
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Was it the 40mm long strips? I haven't heard any complaints from my caster with the 2-man strips.
It's the scale. Ideally the weapons need to be 10mm scale, with thin shields and tiny holes between arms and weapons etc.
When Colin got a job in the studio he said to us "don't worry, i know mouldmaking, you won't get difficult masters from me!!" ....... his first project was warmaster lol
Also with the amount of castings that GW produces it puts a strain on the masters, and they need to be recast, which puts a strain on the master moulds. I know a lot of the master moulds were on their last legs, so it wouldn't be as easy as "let's just keep the range we have, and expand on that with races we haven't done before". You'd have to redo everything.
At the time we were using black rubber, which i personally think is worse then the silicone moulds that most companies use nowadays.
This whole project is run by Tony Cottrell (dunno if he's known?) .... Head of Forge World ... basically he is very much into 40k, not that bothered about fantasy setting (WHFB, WM etc)
Interesting stuff.
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@Calmacil:
As far as I know the Polar Fox range is made by Bel himself as he has a very good hand for these things.
Thank you very much for the info about Warmaster moulding - I'm amazed the range lasted to 2013, bearing all this in mind.
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Psst...
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/12247016_1233890153304105_8189179716343340001_n.jpg?oh=c1c84f64989fca7328fbffe2f1777bd9&oe=56F02297)
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That was a test model, but that being said I am seeing it in a new light =D
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Test model or not, it looks rather on the large side. I hope that they are not going to change the scale of Epic.
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Keep in kind that the scale of infantry was different than vehicles. I guess that this time they will try to be more consistent.
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Yeah, the Warmaster moulds were definitely giving up the ghost towards the end. I remember ordering 16 blisters of skaven clanrat as a part of my last big army order just before the end and they were FULL of flash and several strips had the odd 'mutant' in there where the moulds hadn't quite worked. I didn't complain though as around a fortnight after I received these they started pulling Warmaster from sale.
Dave
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Fan sculpt titan equivalents like those from Defeat in Detail were about that size. You compare a DiD Leviathan to even the last E:A Warlord Titan and you'll see it's significantly larger.
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I look forward to more Man-o-War to Dreadfleet style butchering of the classics!
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Fan sculpt titan equivalents like those from Defeat in Detail were about that size. You compare a DiD Leviathan to even the last E:A Warlord Titan and you'll see it's significantly larger.
That scale difference is crazy. My opponent's fan sculpt Warhounds are bigger than my Forgeworld Reavers. Great models though.
I won't be too surprised if they do a 'Battle of Five Armies' re-release. That'd be good, even if the models don't all suit the other Warmaster ranges.
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In the past I've argued that that sticking to 6mm but scaling up the vehicles/titans to match the fanware could work in GW's/Our favour for recruiting people to the game with gorgeous plastic kits. Just look at people using the Knights / Dreadknights to kitbash Imperator titans for Epic:Armageddon.
The detail that GW can cram into tight sprues now is nuts - Centrepiece models like titans will convince people to part with their money, just as it did back in Space Marine days. Then people will want the army to match it. Every battle report had a nice big great gargant or Phantom titans and Warlords as the centrepiece, then the hordes of infantry and tanks to go with it.
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If the ruleset was solid and the game (being officially supported by GW) drew in lots of players I would prolly invest :)
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From what I've read, it's going to be Forgeworld providing the support, not GW. A number of people seem to think that this is very good thing, but I am not so sure. I am keeping an open mind as best I can though.
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Well, looking at their Horus Heresy models and books, the quality has been rather good. If they can do it at that level it'll be pure awesomeness!
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If the ruleset was solid and the game (being officially supported by GW)
Given the situation I'm afraid this is kind of contradiction...
Most of the good SG rulesets are so great because GW had lost interest in them before it got chance to spoil it...
Many times GW declared the fact that it is no longer game and hobby company, but miniature company.
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What an aptly named company they are then...
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Maybe that's why GW stores are no longer named GW stores :-D
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2hcEnK8gr2Q/VDjGbSQtzRI/AAAAAAAAp00/48JVv89ur6E/s1600/10696450_849231721776964_8583022200372206912_n.jpg)
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The reasoning for that was that nowadays "Games" shop in the UK really means computer games. Loads of clueless parents / grandparents would go in expecting X Box games!
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I hate to point it out but they're hardly selling weapons either. (Besides, still labelled GW in Sweden).
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Let's get back to discussing the rumoured releases please. The merits or otherwise of GW's store names can be discussed elsewhere :).
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if they re-release old games with new models what will that do to the ebay prices of the old models? Go up?
GW can do some research first and think; if pandraken makes these models for 8 bucks we should make sure we can feasibly sell them for 7 bucks. And then sell them for 9 or 10.
I hope they stay competitive in prices is all im hoping. more expensive is justifiable for more detail and quality so here is hoping for specialist games to come back and not just GW admitting a huge mistake and just bringing back warhammer fantasy LOL
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Frankly, better support is better than no support at all. Viva la SG!
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if they re-release old games with new models what will that do to the ebay prices of the old models? Go up?
GW can do some research first and think; if pandraken makes these models for 8 bucks we should make sure we can feasibly sell them for 7 bucks. And then sell them for 9 or 10.
I hope they stay competitive in prices is all im hoping. more expensive is justifiable for more detail and quality so here is hoping for specialist games to come back and not just GW admitting a huge mistake and just bringing back warhammer fantasy LOL
"Games Workshop" and "competitive prices" aren't words one often sees together ;)
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Considering how much "Oldhammer" miniatures go for (or how much Ebay sellers dream that they go for at least), I hardly think any old Specialist Games miniatures are in for a price drop. Especially not with a potentially expanded fan base.
I think the idea of one-off box sets is likely given that it has been rumoured for years (i.e. planting the concept) *and* is in line with the recent collectible, limited miniatures strategy of GW. If for no other reason, it let's them test the waters at low risk. How that approach would measure up against fully supported games from competitors would be interesting to see.
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and with this announcement from GW at hand, finally, i convinced the entire rest of my 40k group to all get BFG fleets for our campaign... i am happy :)
once we get it all kicked off, i'll make them all participate in GothiComp - expect us! ;D
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That's the best thing we could hope for; fence sitters being convinced to dig out their lead and paint. =)
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I'm seeing a resurgence in interest in people in my group getting back into Epic and dusting off some very old lead and buying new bits and bobs too! All good stuff.
Dave
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Does anyone fancy a job?
http://jobs.games-workshop.com/2015/11/13/specialist-brands-product-manager-nottingham-uk/
There has been some suggestion that the fact that the job mentions Adeptus Titanicus means that this is going to be the Epic release, rather than a full re-release of a revamped version of Epic.
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Does anyone fancy a job?
http://jobs.games-workshop.com/2015/11/13/specialist-brands-product-manager-nottingham-uk/
There has been some suggestion that the fact that the job mentions Adeptus Titanicus means that this is going to be the Epic release, rather than a full re-release of a revamped version of Epic.
How desperate (or deranged) would you have to be to want to work for...
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Very poor money and you are probably going to be sacked in 2 to 3 years as soon as your project is over, no matter how good you are - no thanks!
If I ever win the lottery I'd consider it!
Dave
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"How desperate (or deranged) would you have to be to want to work for..."
Hell, it's still a dream job for me... =shrugs=
It was my dream job when I was 6 years old - to be doing the art and layouts of manuals, and it still is.
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I've heard from the manager of my local GW that it will be one-off box sets to start with, to see how many sell and what interest there is
if the one-off boxes sell well, they'll expand and make more
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They should sell well.
Most of us will probably buy a couple or more boxes to use now and one to get around too.
Then you will have the investors buying now and adding a nought later.
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As long as they don't Dreadfleet it...
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I'm a little bit hyped by the news about the relaunch of the Specialist Games. Most of all I'm looking forward to BFG. Hopefully there will be newly designed plastic models with a lot of customizing options, like they did with all their latest minis, not just recasts of the old core box sprues. I'm curious what is included in these one-off boxes. I can't imagine they will attract a lot of customers with only a few cruisers inside. I think there should be a good variety right from the start to keep player in line. I also wonder if they manage to keep player interested in the long term by constantly adding new stuff to the games. So I hope they have I little bit more in mind than just a little "Cruiser Clash" game or so.
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one of them will be called adeptus titanicus......so maybe some titan only battle madness?
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Modern plastic Warlords would be fabulous. If they did that, I'd have a regular one for imperial lists, a Psi one for Grey Knights, and of course one for Chaos, preferably in the Banelord style. =-P
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I've heard from the manager of my local GW that it will be one-off box sets to start with, to see how many sell and what interest there is
if the one-off boxes sell well, they'll expand and make more
That is certainly a plausible scenario, but never ever take what GW retail staff say as even remotely reliable, 99 times out of 100, they know less than or exactly as much as we do.
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one of them will be called adeptus titanicus......so maybe some titan only battle madness?
This is what I was alluding to when I posted that job advert. I'd actually be pretty disappointed if it the boxed set turns out to focus solely on titans. The game itself might be very good (the original Adeptus Titanicus was excellent apparently, although I never played it), but something with more scope in terms of diversity would be of more interest to me.
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Easy now. Diversity in moderation, not another Dreadfleet mess, please.
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So is there any word if Warmaster will be one of those games? Seeing the new Warhammer Total War makes me think the Old World is still alive somehow. Maybe it can be alive in Warmaster also.
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They've only recently advertised the positions for the game development group working on these games. I don't think they even know what games they'll be making yet :P
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They didn't mention it or Mordheim. On the other hand, why would it be impossible to have "historical" games? Mordheim wasn't set in the current era was it?
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As I've mentioned in the Tac Command forum, Lady Atia who is a trusted rumour monger has hinted at things arriving sooner rather than later - as the team behind the Assassination Force and Betrayal at Calth games is potentially already up and running and working on further boxed games in the new year.
Currently a Deathwatch vs. Tyranids one off is being rumoured, though I think that will just be a 40k box rather than a board game like Betrayal.
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When I visited a FL gaming store yesterday I couldn't resist to ask the owner if AoS is selling well. The answer was short. "No". She didn't sell any of the AoS starter boxes. And nobody had ever played it in the store. But she also told me that AoS had some positive side effects. Since the end of the WHF universe she sold more WHF stuff than ever. People were buying miniatures like crazy and she had almost no WHF stuff left. Old player were simply shifting to Kings of War, taking their old armies with them. Now that Kings of War is mainly played by fantasy gamers at the store also new player join the games. It didn’t take long for KoW to almost completely replace WHF. Looks like KoW is the real winner of the death of the WHF.
I don't know. I have the feeling that GW will sooner or later regret killing WHF. I mean abandoning a game or reducing its support is one thing I can totally understand. But killing a whole franchise is somehow crazy for me.
Noticing the recent change of mind in GWs management, the increased awareness regarding their products and the success that other companies have in fields that were abandoned by GW, I wouldn’t be surprised if WHF somehow gets a similar treatment like the Specialist games or even a resurrection.
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Getting back to the topic at hand: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/12/gw-rumors-specialist-games-begins.html
It looks likely, therefore, that the games that Forgeworld will start with are as follows:
Blood Bowl
Battlefleet Gothic
Necromunda
Mordheim
Apparently, Necromunda will be the first release.
I think that they've made a logical choice to start with these games. They are all standalone and don't require expansions, although the possibility would always be there, assuming that they sell.
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That's a great sign that Mordheim is the list. That means the Old World is still alive for GW, at least in one of their games. Hopefully Warmaster follows, I guess we'll have to wait and see.
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good tidings!
lets hope that Warmaster actually makes the cut.
By the way, does anyone know if GW destroyed the original moulds for the Warmaster range?
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Time to give up all silly hopes... anythig GW is able to produce nowdays apart from tasteless miniatures is some form of this:
https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfl1/t31.0-8/12363089_792406087571935_3166750082046355241_o.jpg (https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfl1/t31.0-8/12363089_792406087571935_3166750082046355241_o.jpg)
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Time to give up all silly hopes... anythig GW is able to produce nowdays apart from tasteless miniatures is some form of this:
https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfl1/t31.0-8/12363089_792406087571935_3166750082046355241_o.jpg (https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfl1/t31.0-8/12363089_792406087571935_3166750082046355241_o.jpg)
Tell me that's not genuine! How low an IQ would you need to think that was in any way, shape or form a good thing.
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I'm sure that one is a joke Andys, but there is a chance they'll mutilate the game rules.
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No joke, but not an official GWHQ-release either. It's a storecreated campaign. Pics taken from the stores official FB-page.
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If GW is trying to make a profit with her (GW is a -she right?) old products they will have to compete with the current forerunners .
That means that BFG will have to compete with Star Wars Armada/X-wing (which is really popular) while Mordheim, BloodBowl, Epic and Warmaster have no serious competition that I know of so I guess they will probably make a return with minor changes?
Anyway I am completely in the dark here so I can't really predict what is going to happen.
I just hope they don't simplify everything for the sake of appealing to a younger audiance.
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No need to worry. In the unlikely case that the old rules won't work for new miniatures there's bound to be a fan made fix. GW should never have pulled out of SG if they didn't want to encourage fan made rule design. Though I suppose it's hard to prevent in a hobby where people need to engage the creative parts of their minds to participate.
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In store campaign =! Anything to do with the studio rules
Relax, that's just an attempt to whip up some Sigmarine sales, GW knows grognards won't fall for that. They're smarter than you think nowadays.
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has anyone seen the BFG armada imperium trailer yet?
looks a lot better than the man o'war "teaser"
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Yeah the BFG game looks super competent right now.
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That means that BFG will have to compete with Star Wars Armada/X-wing (which is really popular) while Mordheim, BloodBowl, Epic and Warmaster have no serious competition that I know of so I guess they will probably make a return with minor changes?
Blood Bowl = Dreadball & Guild Ball that have all started to gain their own following (some players are ex-BB, some never played BB, some still play it [me!]).
Mordheim = Frostgrave is a new game that has got a small but expanding fan base, again made up of ex-, never- and still- Mordheim players.
Epic = I can see Dropzone Commander being competition, especially if big "robots" are ever added.
BFG might also get competition from Dropfleet Commander which has recently funded (big time!) on Kickstarter.
That said, I don't think those games need major changes - I find games like Dreadball, Guild Ball and Frostgrave (which I all play) have their own feel while still being in the same ballpark
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The SG were all about scratching an itch that the "main games" couldn't reach.
Growing up I wasn't interested in 28mm at all, when I saw the tiny Epic tanks I knew that was where my heart was set! Naturally, other companies have been filling those gaps in the meantime!
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Regarding Mordheim: I agree with Darkson, Frostgrave is THE current competitor, if that is even the right word. The similarities to Mordheim are striking and at the very least is proves that there is still quite some interest in new fantasy skirmish gaming.
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latest rumour from the recent WHW birthday event is that Andy Hoare will be heading up the SG division, they were showing off some of the blood bowl sculpts, pics of which which seem to have been widely disseminated across the web
I'm told epic will not be in the initial wave and will see no development over 2016 as it's a huge project (more likely they're waiting to see if the venture is a failure before committing the large amount of resources required to epic....) apparently they are looking to involve the community in development as they did previously which makes me cautiously optimistic, certainly as the more recent rumours were that the new games would all have an AoS-style 4-page rule pamphlet....
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I'm a bit more cautious about community involvement. Much depends on how united the community is about the games in question. There are more disagreements about the rules and army balance for some games than others. As a result, asking the community for input is not necessary going to be silver bullet.
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I'm guessing we can be pretty sure they wont rewrite the rules for BB? Considering The NAF have done a good job at finetuning the rules and then Cyanide brought it forward to a new generation of gamers...
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I'm a bit more cautious about community involvement. Much depends on how united the community is about the games in question. There are more disagreements about the rules and army balance for some games than others. As a result, asking the community for input is not necessary going to be silver bullet.
Perhaps, but one of the issuss we have with NetEA development and all the squabbles therein is in part to the lack of an 'official' figurehead who is viewed as an authority by the developers, Jervis did a good job herding the cats in that respect and dev fell apart after his departure....
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Oi!
What's up with the Orc's nose?
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rd0lsyAAuM0/VoextjtosxI/AAAAAAAAAj4/d5eVzE3MXKc/s1600/12482866_10153385032873831_91970050_o.jpg)
Looks like a single piece model to me:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-qwc3HFwbejs/VoexuOSkl7I/AAAAAAAAAj8/rceF23Z1Tvw/s1600/12443672_10153385032843831_1385530810_o.jpg)
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I'm guessing we can be pretty sure they wont rewrite the rules for BB? Considering The NAF have done a good job at finetuning the rules and then Cyanide brought it forward to a new generation of gamers...
The NAF had nothing to do with the rules, that was the BBRC (though most [or all] of the BBRC were/are NAF members).
I hope they don't use the Cyanide rules.
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Ah :) my bad. I thought Cyanide used the same ruleset?
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"About the Specialist Games:
Blood Bowl is currently most worked on, ETA is end of 2016 though. There *may* be another game from the Specialist Games Department before it though... ;-) "
So Lady Atia posted this in the bolter and chainsword forum - at first I thought it was Adeptus Titanicus - now I think it might be that rumoured genestealer hybrid vs Deathwatch game that's been rumoured.
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That'd suit their current style. 40k models that fill a niche people have been wanting for some time now.
Hopefully they'll be less secretive than GW main- I really want to know what direction they'll take Epic (once they've considered it).
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Well from what Atia and others have said it sounds like it's much closer tied to Forge World, which as we know, actually tells you what they're doing months in advance which is helpful.
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Based on what I've picked up so far, it seems that they will be releasing an Adeptus Titanicus big boxed set, rather than releasing a full Epic game unfortunately. IF the Adeptus Titanicus game sells well then PROBABLY, down the road they'll do a full re-launch of Epic.
Its not what I wanted to hear either but I thought it best to share, in case anyone was holding off getting into the current (fan based) Epic stuff as they were expecting a full Epic re launch in the next year or two.
Dave
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I'm actually pleased that Epic is not currently in the pipeline, especially if they have any plans to construct the rules based on consulting the community.
Adeptus Titanicus might sell, but whether it will sell enough to encourage Forgeworld to relaunch Epic is open to debate. In view of 40K having turned itself into a vastly inferior version of Epic, Adeptus Titanicus may well struggle to capture the market in terms of younger players, and will there be enough veteran gamers who still have the time to play who will purchase Adeptus Titanicus? I think that the jury is still out on that one.
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You'd like to think that BOFA would be easy to reinstate. Surely the moulds for the plastic figures didn't get all that much use and the metal figure ones even less.
Overall it's quite a small range and would give them a good indication as to the demand for 10mm fantasy gaming.
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The entire BoFA launch and demise was just... weird to me. I was very active back then, buying all of the WD magazines, regularly looking at the website, etc. and I never once saw advertising for that game. It was only on one bored night of trawling through the website that I came across it- and bought it- and about a month later it was gone, with no notice. I didn't have the chance to grab any of the cool metal models for it. They clearly wanted the game to fail, which just seems like madness.
An Adeptus Titanicus relaunch could be good. I play Epic, but that would still interest me for the detailed Titan-on-Titan combat (regular Epic rules for Titans are very simple). New Titan models could be very welcome as well. There are current sculpts in the community though that are absolutely brilliant, so GW has already lost some sales potential there. Knights and Warlords are the main things lacking at the moment.
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BoFA may have been a "obliged to produce" game, for contractual reasons?
It is a good set-up in its own right and could have made a briljant alternative Warmaster setting
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There are already so many Warmaster armies to choose from - but for a while I did attempt to find a good proxy list for LOTR in 10mm.
There's some good options out there but I have my plate full with the Old World right now. =3
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I view this possible return of SG the same as hearing about an ex asking about how I am doing
Nice to hear but not going to go back for more anger and heartache
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Lol, good comparison. "Let's be nice to each other but there is *no* way I'm getting back involved."
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oh man but if the game is good enough and your friends want you too..... ;)
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oh man but if the game is good enough and your friends want you too..... ;)
This is always the draw
But things are never as good as the first go around
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https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/12573118_1494723920835626_1991723770540782508_n.jpg?oh=31811236742cc14cfe8d6e9f2f4d3a14&oe=572796D3
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That's pretty cool. "The original fantasy football," ha, clever. Because let's be real, Fantasy Football is neither good fantasy nor good football.
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I have to admit, it got me interested enough to check it out from the original game's battle reports on youtube and has made me want to play a bit. With the new one coming out, maybe, just maybe, my wallet will let me check it out.
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You know, I love most of GW's plastics. I especially love a lot of the Old World warhammer fantasy plastics, and the opportunity to chop up some High Elves or Dark Elves to make a team is something I look forward to. =)
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With titanicus and blood bowl confirmed, has there been any official mention of warmasters return?
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No, I'm afraid not.
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That's a shame, I thought as they are turning age of sigmar into a skirmish like game they may have gone 10mm for the massed battles. I'll keep my fingers crossed they see the light (my bank balance will keep its fingers crossed they don't!)
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If they make Warmaster into an AoS game I have no interest.
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If they make Warmaster into an AoS game I have no interest.
You won't take Warmaster rules and new models?
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rumors about Titanicus say it's gonna be 8mm - for obvious reasons. There are too many alternative options in 6mm scale and GW doesn't want to have any competition. The same fits for model size shift in AoS (and renaming races from generic names to those silly ones goes along this copyright line as well). So even if there are plans to "Warmaster-like" game to come (which is extremely unlikely imo), it would be definitely different scale and different "uncopyable" funny races. So even in that case, not interested a bit...
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I don't think 8mm Titanicus would matter- the fan sculpts of the various titans are much, much bigger than anything GW ever released anyway (including the Forgeworld line of Epic Titans). GW would simply be shooting themselves in the foot regarding infantry and vehicles- money here will come mostly from us old-timers. Still, size isn't a big deal in Epic for the most part, so I can see 8mm being used alongside 6mm.
It'll be similar for a Warmaster re-release. If they don't go 10mm it'll just cost them money, and those who buy it will probably run it alongside 6mm stuff anyway.
If they make Warmaster into an AoS game I have no interest.
Agreed. I don't really care what they do to the rules, as we have good rules we can use with any suitable models now. If they make the models 'AoS' styled though, or based on AoS factions, then I wouldn't touch it.
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the manager of my local GW has been hinting at a resurrection of a few games, pretty much straight out said BFG is coming back
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I’m also not interested in anything AoS related. My interest in Warhammer died together with the old world. I will come back anytime they rerelease Warhammer Fantasy. But I don’t think that will ever happen.
As for the scale changes, I think that GW once again made a stupid decision. Choosing a common scale has a lot more advantages than disadvantages (i.m.o.). You may exclude rival game systems and miniatures but you also make your system less attractive for those who play a rival system and could have been interested in your miniatures. The only way to tie customer to your products is quality and individuality not a stupid scale.
the manager of my local GW has been hinting at a resurrection of a few games, pretty much straight out said BFG is coming back
Well, I thought that was already officially confirmed, including BFG?
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Yep, BFG was officially confirmed, as was Necromunda (no times scales given though). Only Mordheim seems not to be on the official list. ???
Even GorkaMorka got a mention as a "maybe".
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I wouldn't mind if they brought warmaster back in the aos realm. Although I think magister militium May have stole a start on gw with the stormcasts!
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The fan sculpted Epic stuff would probably work for the infantry as these do look much bigger than the old GW 6mm plastic ranges. I'm less sure about vehicles though Geep - do you think they will sit alongside an 8mm scale vehicle?
Ditto the titans. The old GW warlord titan is roughly 4" tall. The new warlord titans are rumoured to be around 6" tall - significantly larger!
I will probably buy the new adeptus titans game as, as long as all the titans are the same relative scale, they'll still fit next to the tiny infantry and tanks - it'll actually look more 'true scale' IMHO.
I'm les convinced about buying 8mm vehicles though. I have a SERIOUS investment in 6mm Epic figures - both original GW and the newer fan made stuff and will not be 'starting again' just because new Epic is in 8mm.
Dave
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this titanicus game sounds interesting and I might have a look into it when it shows up, I always wanted to try epic too
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I've cleared a number of spam posts from this topic. Please let's keep off topic chit chat for the chit chat board. Thank you :).
I do like what I'm hearing about the likely re-releases of specialist games as a whole, and I hope that it will inspire a new generation to get into these games. My main interest remains with Epic though, thus I'm disappointed that it seems to be the case that the 8mm scale is now confirmed. That is not going to look right alongside all my second edition models, so I won't be getting it.
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As you say, it's for a new generation, who has not yet been spamed by all those new 6mm manufacturers and 3D printer from great fanmade stuff.
They are clearly not proposing this new game for us.
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I don't think there is a new generation willing to leap into a GW game like this. It's well known that they killed off Epic before, and will again- anyone interested in smaller scale stuff has probably found the many alternatives by now. If the boxed game is solid as a self-standing thing it may have some popularity, but this is not the way to launch a successful game with long-term viability.
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I hope they don't do a similar number on warmaster. I just bought a whole bunch myself! I wish games workshop didn't continually try weird things to mess up their costumes. I don't want to buy off brand stuff, but it's either unavailable or completely uncompetitively priced. Ugh. I want it to work between us games workshop, but you have trust issues.
I haven't bought in to epic yet. But I'd love to someday. But if they want to resurrect a game, why piss off the ready made base and community that's already there, the ones who are excited about it the most in the first place! Why not draw in new blood and please the old timers.
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As you say, it's for a new generation, who has not yet been spamed by all those new 6mm manufacturers and 3D printer from great fanmade stuff.
They are clearly not proposing this new game for us.
Wrongo, my man. Apart from Age of Sigmar, everything GW has been doing the past 5-6 years has been designed solely to milk the ever smaller population of hardcore veterans for everything we've got.
Changing the scale is exactly what you do to force established players to buy everything again. Just like they keep inventing new units for 40k to sell them to those of us who already have everything, as opposed to updating old sculpts, which we might or might not purchase if we already own those units. For new players it wouldn't matter if GW releases an updated kit or a new kit, they don't have either and would buy either. GW does what it does to maximize sales to veterans.
For the same reason, they're scraping the bottom of the barrel of their old concepts from the 90s. Adeptus Mechanicus. Genestealer Cults. Deathwatch. Specialist Games. All these releases are banking on our nostalgia. On the deep pockets of veterans in their 30s and 40s who wanted an AdMech army since they were teens.
If Specialist Games were aimed at new players they would be releasing BFG right now as the computer game is massively popular. But no. They're not aimed at fresh customers, so the tie-in doesn't matter. They went straight for the game with by far the largest established community, Blood Bowl. And you can bet that they'll change it enough that you'll want to buy it all anew. Starting with scaling the miniatures up to Age of Sigmar size (despite BB still being set in the Old World) on large round bases so your old metals will look naff facing a new team.
And it'll be the same for Epic. It's going to 8mm to shame you out of using your old 6mm stuff. All it takes is for one player in a group to buy a new 8mm army and then everyone has to update everything if they want the battles to look good.
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I agree with some of what you're saying, but I think that it's more applicable to the larger scale games, such as 40K.
As far as Specialist Games are concerned, I think that GW is hedging its bets by trying to appeal to new and veteran gamers at the same time. Whether that works is a different matter, but one thing that would surprise me would be veteran gamers reacting to one person purchasing the 8mm version. My experience of discussing the issue of scale with the Epic community online is that the majority appears indifferent to what GW is going to do.
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I know BB is different to other games (grid based, no LOS, etc) but a change in scale won't make me rush out and buy the new box set. As it is, I'm not convinced I'll be in a rush to get it, as the new, larger pitch won't fit on our regular gaming tables at our club, though I might get it for home use, but I'll continue to use my old 28mm figs.
I think GW are banking on getting a nice ration of veterans to new players.
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I actually wonder if doing Epic in 8mm might be a complete disaster?
Half the veterans won't buy it for obvious reasons?
I MIGHT buy the titans as I don't own many titans in 6mm scale.
I'm a bit dubious about the inf and vehicles though. They will have to scale to my already large collection or I won't be buying them no matter how cool they look. That, combined with the fact they have not communicated any firm commitment to doing a range of races....
I wouldn't trust them not to release AT and then not do anything else if it doesn't sell well anyway?
I don't want to sound bitter, just healthily sceptical.
Dave
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That, combined with the fact they have not communicated any firm commitment to doing a range of races....
I wouldn't trust them not to release AT and then not do anything else if it doesn't sell well anyway?
I don't want to sound bitter, just healthily sceptical.
That's pretty much where I sit too right now, logically I can't blame them for taking that type of approach because it is much "safer" from a business perspective. Hopefully as things get closer we can get more info on everything.
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For me would be perfect if epic would return in 9-10mm, and would be very nice if it would be compatible to dropzone commander....
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well having just played around with space marines on BFG: armada, I think we may see some new ships for space marines in the re-boot of BFG
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New stuff for space marines? Nah, games workshop would never focus almost exclusively on them. ;D
On a side note. Where do most people get their rumors and info on this stuff? I can't really find anything since they first announced the return in December.
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the manager at my local GW is rather open about whats in development or coming up, mainly because I'll probably end up buying stuff
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The manager at your local GW probably knows less about what's coming up than you do. It's rare the company tells them anything before one of the reliable rumour mongers has already told us, hell it's rare they tell them anything at all more than a couple of weeks in advance.
While the scale change is I'm sure somewhat galling for people with really large collections, I don't know that it will be as dramatic as some fear, the scale for Epic models was already all over the joint. I'm more concerned about the prices - if we are getting FW resin and they keep their pricing relatively consistent, in 8mm scale you're looking at roughly Castellax > Leviathan > plastic Knight in terms of a Warhound > Reaver > nuWarlord progression(they'd be slightly smaller in each case, but those are probably the closest). That's £30-ish quid for a Warhound, £70-ish quid for a Reaver, and something like £120 for a Warlord. Knights, if they get to them, would probably be Thallax-ish, so £30 for three.
Even a small game-ready force at those prices is going to be extortionate, and woe betide the poor buggers who have to buy two forces to try and build some playerbase in their local area. I'd love an AT demi-Legio or even just a modest battlegroup, but modern FW rates price me right out and I'd wager I'm not alone even among the kind of crusty old vets GW likely expect to support this SG rerelease.
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I recently had a little reunion with my old gaming friends. And all of us gladly took an oath. That if Necromunda will ever return, no matter what, we will be playing it. Then we started discussing about the rules. And that get us wondering, there's no chance they're going to leave the rules as they were? Those are as old as a classic 40k edition. i haven't had a chance to play all those new GW board games, but we started wondering, maby the rules would be somehow made like those. Because there are a significantly less models in those games, you know like squad vs squad. kinda like gang vs. gang. As for other games i dont see how they could change it, Gothic rules are pretty neat, maybe need some revamps but the core rules should stay the same. It's Necromunda that worries me.
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It was my impression that Inquisitor (via Inquisitor28) and Necromunda were going strong in the fan community. Certainly no issue dredging up models from GW or elsewhere to fit the need, no?
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Looks like i got my answear sooner than I ecspected.
via BoLS:
"Here’s the basics from our BoLS reporter on site at the GAMA trade show:
Necromunda will re-released in a new reimagined edition.
Titled Armageddon Shadow Wars
Rules will be almost identical to the original.
Organized Play support will accompany the new game.
Unlike Killteam, there is a point-based system for buying your gang.
The game does NOT use the 40K rules, stats, etc at all.
The game will ship with 12 factions.
The core box will contain Blood Angels Marine Scouts and Orks"
(http://pro.bols.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/GAMA-SWA-BoxArt-Content.jpg)
(https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ddc642b78309ed454392a3530c64f2c4e9755248d90f6f75528df5f5adae0222.jpg)
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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/03/15/war-returns-to-armageddon/
Full res pic here!
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It's just a reworking of Necromunda, but specifically in relation to 40K. I'm not convinced that it's going to work. The background side of it seems a bit lacking. Still, at least they are trying to bring some of these old games to a new audience in some way.
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Maby they will see how it sells and then re-realease a true necromunda. i kinda dislike the setting, is really far fetched that all those diffrent factions wage a shadow war in one hive. But it kinda lures me as the 40k second edition eldar player to have a small harlequin warband or something. The terrain definitivly steals the show.
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Maby they will see how it sells and then re-realease a true necromunda.
:D never give up hoping
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if a league near me popped up I think I would join. Easy enough to get a few mini's together to play I guess.
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I may be tempted by the terrain if its a good deal?
Muchos disappointed that its not 'proper' hiver gangs.
Dave
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It was my impression that Inquisitor (via Inquisitor28) and Necromunda were going strong in the fan community. Certainly no issue dredging up models from GW or elsewhere to fit the need, no?
Never underestimate the staggering connection GW has created between 'buying' and 'playing'. Alan Merrett wasn't entirely wrong when he said 'the Games Workshop hobby is buying Games Workshop products'. I've been watching some discussion about the Adeptus Titanicus game and some of it goes like this:
Person A: "I hope AT means that GW will bring back Epic and it'll make a triumphant return! I'd love to play it again!"
Person B: "Well, it never really went away. Netepic and NetE:A are available to download, and if ebay isn't forthcoming, there are a lot of small businesses pumping out more and more great proxy minis."
Person A: "I hope AT means that GW will bring back Epic and it'll make a triumphant return! I'd love to play it again!"
Person B: (Is this thing on?)
The background side of it seems a bit lacking.
I'm not entirely convinced it'll work either, but I thought a reasonable amount had been written about that particularly event in the 40K universe.
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Maby they will see how it sells and then re-realease a true necromunda.
:D never give up hoping
:D :D :D
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/08/40k-breaking-necromunda-returns.html (http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/08/40k-breaking-necromunda-returns.html)
Image removed because of the size and the fact it was hotlinking, which isn't really something that we should be encouraging - Iris.
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Thanks for the heads up and for bringing positive news :).
Just a note for everyone that there is also another topic on this subject here (http://www.forum.specialist-arms.com/index.php?topic=8859.0). Please continue the discussion there, so it is all kept in one place. Thank you.