Brigade combinations?

[Avatar of the Eldar]

Based on a directional 2K list from a previous thread (thanks, Haranin). 

How should such a force be deployed and brigaded?  What goes with what?

2 archers
2 bolt throwers
eagles
reavers
4x silver helms
7 spearelves
General with orb
two wizards, one mounted on a dragon with a sword

[captPiett]

Hey Avatar,
The eagles go by themselves - they pick off artillery and weakened units
The shooty stuff needs protection - so I would brigade 1-2 of the archers with 2 spearmen and a pair of bolt throwers with spearmen on either side or some such.
cav goes with cav, and for the most part, concentration works best. Since you have a lone reaver however making 5 units, some combo of 2 and 3 -unit brigades could work

Leadership should stay unattached to units but within 30 cm of something - that way they're functionally immortal . I usually position my commanders slightly ahead of the brigades, so that the formations don't exit the 20cm distance on their first command.
Especially if you have an important brigade (i.e. 4 units of heavy cav), have your best command near that at the moment of truth. It's a little hard to be sneaky in WM anyway so telegraphing your moves isn't so much of a concern.

[Lex]

Remember that there is no rule against mixed arms brigades.....

Reavers with archers allow you to concentrate missilefire, and if a "soft target"  presents itself the reavers can still use their FULL charge distance to engage, while the archers more to the side and try to remove support.....

[Haranin]

Brigades can be any combination of units between 2 and 4.

Some like combined arms units; I tend to find that they get in each other's way (ie making initiative charges difficult since the archers need an order to move out of the way first).

I like to organize brigades by role.

For example, in my example list-

Shooty brigade
2 archers
2 bolt throwers

Shooting has difficultly doing much, so combining into one formation makes it easier to concentrate your fire and maybe do something. Good brigade to field in the center, or to deny a flank. Few opponents will relish going head first into this brigade.

eagles

As others mentions, by themselves. Most efficient on a flank, using homeback and orders to charge flanks in ways that the enemy can't anticipate. Not a line unit, and will be attritted fast... but annoying and effective. Tough learning curve.

A few options; one is two brigades of two silver helms and use the reavers independantly; another is to add them to one unit of silver helms. Put these on the flanks. Just because you have a 4+ AS doesn't mean you need to charge frontally. Use your leadership 10 to get flanks
reavers
4x silver helms


7 spearelves

Either two brigades (3 and 4 units) or three brigades (2-2-3). Use these to back stop the shooty line and extend your battle line. Gives you a center line of ~3 brigades with one in reserve, and two units of flankers.

Use your general in the first turns to move your shooters to a good position, and get the infantry into a solid battleline. Maintaining your battleline without giving up flanks is important in the begininng. Getting out of position early will lose you the game.

Use the wizards to get your flankers moving up. As the game develops, move your general where the decisive point will be. Worry more about what you are going to do to the enemy then reacting to the enemy. Battles are won by forcing your opponent to get out of position responding to you.

When you get to a critical fight, throw in the wizard on a dragon. Never on a close fight- only when you know you can win, and there is little opertunity for the enemy to counterstrike. Once committed, its a priority target for the enemy.

the buff spell is excellent.

[Haranin]

For the recent games I played in NH with dwarves; I had a general, two runesmiths 10 warriors, 3 rangers and two cannon.

One brigade was two cannon and two rangers (rangers to protect the cannon from flyers, as game developed, the rangers moved up to engage where necessary). So this brigade shoots, and acts as a reserve force.

warriors divided up into brigades of 3-4-3 to provide the battleline. Extra ranger unit joins one of the 3 unit warrior brigades at the rear (so the enemy has to engage the 4+ AS warriors, but the rangers are around to chase down knights).

Against the hypothetical elf force, the elves should try to match frontage with the dwarf infantry with their infantry, send the knights out to the flanks for flank charges. Classic horns of the bull.

----

A classic GW brigade is shooters in a line with three units of infantry behind in column. I don't like that formation, as I feel it restricts your offensive options to much- initiative charging is golden as it eliminates command rolls. shooter + infantry combos require orders at negatives to do the same thing.

Side note- poke around the website for this group; they have counters you can use to get a feel for the different armies.

[David Wasilewski]

Form a "gun line" in the centre with archers and bolt throwers supported by a second line of spears. Creep it forward with the general. Split your cavalry evenly between the flanks. Your shooting should force the enemy to attack your infantry gun line, then close the "trap" (horns of the buffalo, Zulu style) with your cavalry on the flanks.

Of course terrain will influence this but this is the "default" tactic (and quite a succesful one) for the HE army player in our group.

The other (riskier) option is to concentrate all the heavy cavalry together in one large brick and use the general to try and get 2 or 3 consecutive orders off in one go to absolutely smash one flank (and hopefully turn it) of the enemy. This usually ends in tears for one side or the other though!

Dave

[Haranin]

and the big thing to remember is that there is no one way of playing or right way. You need to find what works for you.

Even MSU could work if your brought enough heros....

[calmacil]

I have a question about brigading infantry (high elf spearmen in AotE's case)

Is it best to have each unit in the brigade horizontal? (by that i mean side-to-side, the narrow 20mm edges touch) and then the other units in the brigade behind them

Or vertical? (one stand behind the next) then the other units in the brigade are the same

Or does it depend on the situation?



I've always deployed mine horizontal, but if you're hit with shooting attacks i was thinking only one unit would be driven back.

[Dave]

I think it depends on the situation. I wouldn't recommend a column when facing cannons. But against Cav I would stack deeper to keep my line shorter for support.

[Lex]

There is another good reason to go in column, it has to do with positioning your brigade 18cm out before giving a charge order, and works primarily for dwarfs and various elvenkin ......

 

[Dave]

You're going to have to share that one.

[Avatar of the Eldar]

There is another good reason to go in column, it has to do with positioning your brigade 18cm out before giving a charge order, and works primarily for dwarfs and various elvenkin ......

 

Lex, could you elaborate on that?

My logic, from only reading the rules, would be that If I have a brigade of 3 stands each, I'm better served by keeping them in columns than in 3-deep lines so that units are not falling back through friendly stands. 

I was also assuming that a brigade might be center regiment in line and the two flanking brigades in column or 2-stand width line.

This is one of the features of the game I find attractive - how do you compose and arrange your brigades.

Maybe someone could post a thread "Brigade Management 101"

[calmacil]

Is that something to do with trollslayers Lex?

I think it depends on the situation. I wouldn't recommend a column when facing cannons. But against Cav I would stack deeper to keep my line shorter for support.

Just to clarify, because we're all using different ways to describe this 

Brigade with the units arranged in a column   



Brigade with the units arranged in a line
   


I think i'm doing the same as you Dave. Against enemy cavalry i arrange infantry brigades into into a line (not a column)

However, my reasoning for doing this is from when i first started playing warmaster, and we weren't using warmaster ancient rules. So a cavalry charge kept going on and on. If the infantry brigade was in a column he's likely to contact all 3 units and kill them, and then advance into another brigade. I went for a line to prevent this from happening.

[Dave]

Yep, I'd go the second way when facing Cav. Against cannons though I'd only stack two deep at the max, and then only if they're out of LoS.

I've yet to use anything in column yet, as you're describing. I'm guessing there's a few tricks you can pull with that though given everyone has LoS for a charge.

[Lex]

You're going to have to share that one.

OK, we will make it a little excersize....

take 3 units of (shooty) infantry in line
take3 units of HTH infantry, and line then up in column  (iow) make sure they are side by side in column

place the units between 18 and 20 cm appart

assume that you make a succesful charge order for the HTH infantry

now describe your movens and reasoning.....