May 06, 2025, 01:17:39 PM

Author Topic: [BFG] Armiger84's Drydock  (Read 21096 times)

Offline Armiger84

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Re: [BFG] Armiger84's Drydock
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2013, 05:40:11 AM »
So I learned a few things tonight:

1) Liquid Green Stuff has a shelf life!
2) My Liquid Green Stuff's shelf life has expired!
3) Trying to cut thickened LiqGS with water... gets you slightly thickened green paint!

I managed to do some of the minor filling work I needed to do on my scratchbuilt armor plates with my moistened LiqGS.  I may have to rely on thick metallic paints to help finish the job, that or place yet another order with GW this week... I think they've got enough of my money for the moment though.  I also got my side antennas mounted, now she's a real Chaos Battleship!



It's not a one-to-one copy, but I didn't plan on it being a perfect reproduction anyway ; )
I still need to add a little more styrene detail to that central spine, I'm not 100% happy with it at the moment, feels too empty.  I might try rebuilding those paired feathered raised ridges the chaos cruiser's dorsal spine  has, and put them between that rear vertical antenna mounting and the bridge.  That's a project for tomorrow night though.

Speaking of ongoing projects, I'm starting work on my figurehead!



These are really rough, but I"m just getting started here.  When they dry tomorrow, I'll take a knife to them and see if I can sharpen the details a little more, and maybe build up the wings' spines a bit more with more green stuff too.  If it doesn't pan out, I'll get another pair going, and see if I can't make them smaller.  When I'm done, I want to mount a winged skull where the imperial cruiser bridge has its dome to break up the distinctive imperial lines of the ship's bridge a little, and to proclaim in no uncertain terms that this is an VIII Legion vessel!
My modelling blog:  http://armiger84.blogspot.com

Offline Armiger84

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Re: [BFG] Armiger84's Drydock
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2013, 12:15:57 AM »
So yeah, my efforts over the past few days have taught me that I can't sculpt bat wings to save my life.  Thankfully, TheWarStore has a bunch of Reaper miniatures with bat-winged helms, so my solution is on its way as I type this.

So since the battleship is back-burnered for a little bit, I figured I'd show you what I've been working on this evening instead of making dinner.  We're going to need some more hardpoint weapons systems for chaos ships (imperial ones too) soon, among other things, as there's no real telling how long the plastic kits will hold out.  I wanted to say something sooner about what I was planning on next, but typing out huge grandiose plans is one thing, deeds are another.

So, acta, non verba:

So, in case you're wondering, here's the measurements for the chaos gun decks:
Length:  13.5-14m
Width:  9mm
Depth:  1-1.5mm

The gun deck plates range from about 1mm deep + surface detail, to really thick ones like the lance plates which are more like 1.5mm+.

So, armed with that knowledge, I gridded out a bunch of test plates and proceeded to cut them out of 1mm thick styrene.  I'm pretty sure you don't need a picture of this, so I'll skip this step.  Note though:  This whole process is MOST DEFINITELY measure twice, cut once, and be patient!  Also, use a fresh scalpel blade.  The second you start dulling it or feeling resistance, swap to a new one if you're cutting styrene on this scale, believe me.  Old ones are good for sculpting in green-stuff though.  And remember, since you're playing with tiny stuff (you'll see in a moment), cut slowly and know where your fingers are relative to the blade at all times.  </mother>

So... here's where I got to before I remembered to snap another photo:



Couple things in this shot.  In the background you can see my first trial run at building a gun deck with raised trim.  Expect to see more than a few different possible base plates for gun batteries as I figure out what works.  In the foreground, I'm planning a section to go beneath the trailing edge of the gun battery plate to sculpt targeting arrays or some such onto.  Very early-stage on that, but I need to get some food soon, so that's a project for later.  You'll also notice a curious little square with a pair of half-circles mounted on it.  The square's 1mm thick, the half-circles .5mm thick, and there's a few more of them right next to it...

...So I learned a few things from building this little guy:



It might very well be too big for a battery gun, but that's ok!  Plenty of other possible uses for a macro-cannon of this scale.  This shot has it mounted on a small disk for use as a rotary turret.  That wasn't what I really intended it for, but hey, it might work.  THIS is what I was initially planning on using it for:



So what do you think?  My initial thought was 3 in the back row, 2 in a front row, and use them as a weapons battery broadside.  Based on the current chaos cruiser hull, it's (1) most definitely too big, and (2) not really in keeping with the chaos aesthetic.  That said, I can definitely shrink the concept down even smaller, I have plenty of smaller plastic dowel for starters, and my hole punches go small enough that I can replicate it at what might be a more appropriate scale.  That said, if I went smaller I could probably get more like 6 & 5 on a side, or even go to three rows.

Alternatively, I could just use it as a gun turret.  This is just a first attempt, and I've got plenty more coming.  What do you guys think?
My modelling blog:  http://armiger84.blogspot.com

Offline RaptorEvolved

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Re: [BFG] Armiger84's Drydock
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2013, 02:35:34 AM »
looks great, I imagine the same description for gun batteries in the BFG book, that they where different sizes weapons and whatnot all firing salvos of different sizes and payloads. It looks great, will keep watching the tutorials
If I do kill you, it'll be from the front, and you'll be armed.
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Offline Armiger84

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Re: [BFG] Armiger84's Drydock
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2013, 04:14:01 AM »
Well, watching the Boston Cannons play the Hamilton Nationals was painful.  They're not the MLL team I've been following the past two years.  Ah well.  Just meant I spent a lot of time playing with tiny pieces of styrene tonight.  Also, where'd the past three hours go?  Seriously.

So...



In this picture you have my MACRO macro cannon, a slightly smaller one where I tried to suggest it had an external recoil dampener, and a double-barreled turret that could either be a smaller shell-thrower or a laser weapon of some sort.  It's funny.  They look so tiny on the penny... and then I put them on the side of a chaos cruiser...



So I guess I need to explain a little.  I now understand why GW opted for the checkerboard pattern of tiny turrets on the chaos cruiser battery plates.  The chaos design, a tilted dorsal plate with weapons sticking out of it designed to represent flank batteries, is pretty difficult to build for.  I need to design a weapons system that can believably cover a 90* flank arc, while having a decent amount of elevation to cover targets in three dimensions.  Ultimately, this pretty much requires some sort of turret design, even on what's meant to be a broadside battery.  I always thought it was odd that the Imperial ships represented a strength 6 30cm broadside with 4 massive cannons (although I love them; they're easy to paint and wonderfully visually over-the-top).  What I was trying to do today was see if I could realistically design a broadside battery for a chaos ship that would have that kind of realism-stretching, massive scale for a broadside.  The problem with that idea is that 4-5 massive turrets on the sloped flank of a chaos cruiser looks much more ludicrous than 4 massive snub-barreled cannons sticking out of the side of an Imperial cruiser, mostly because the Imperial cruiser is laid out vertically.  As a consequence of the chaos cruiser's flatter, wider profile, macro cannon just don't really look right, but massed batteries of tiny turrets do.  I've got some wonderful, massive fixed broadside turrets here, they're just not quite right for the chaos hull's shape...  It won't be hard to design something that's much flatter with a whole bunch of little turrets on it... I just didn't really want to copy the existing chaos batteries so closely, you know what I mean?

Also, if you're wondering how to get clean, perfectly vertical cuts on tiny pieces of styrene for your own modelling projects?  I suggest two items:

1) A pipe-cutter:



Available at even a city hardware store, this little thing's meant for carefully cutting through copper pipes.  It handles styrene dowels wonderfully easily (just slot in at desired length, screw the cutter down until you get resistance, rotate the styrene dowel, increase the pressure, rotate, etc. until you cut through).  I think I paid like $5-10 for this in TrueValue.

2) A serious single-edged razor cutting tool.



When you absolutely need a thin strip of styrene to the right length with a specifically angled cut, this thing'll get it for you every time.  It was totally worth the $30 I spent on it in a craft store.  I could have trued up that double-barreled turret on my own with an exacto, but it would have taken three times as long and a little swearing.  I'll spend the money for the time and convenience on this one.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2013, 04:17:30 AM by Armiger84 »
My modelling blog:  http://armiger84.blogspot.com

Offline horizon

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Re: [BFG] Armiger84's Drydock
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2013, 12:34:14 PM »
If this is finished, you should condens this thread into a nice article. Warp Rift will be happy to host it.

Offline connahr

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Re: [BFG] Armiger84's Drydock
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2013, 03:29:47 PM »
nice job, looks really good

just out of curiosity, is the retribution metal or resin?
theres no such thing as over kill, its just making sure

Offline Armiger84

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Re: [BFG] Armiger84's Drydock
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2013, 09:41:02 PM »
@connahr

It took me a few to figure out what you were referencing.  That's an old metal Retribution kit, I've had it base-coated white for a few years now, awaiting its full paint scheme (which, incidentally, is a good thing, since I've decided to change my original plan for my Imperials).  So yeah, backlog, but in the meantime, she's serving well for size reference.



I'll have more in the log soon, was just very busy the last two weeks and then out of town until today.  That said, the Blasphemer's into its last finishing touches before I throw paint on her, and I have my next project to seriously get rolling on.
My modelling blog:  http://armiger84.blogspot.com

Offline Armiger84

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Re: [BFG] Armiger84's Drydock
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2013, 03:32:18 AM »
Well, I said I'd finish her when I finally had some time.



The dorsal spine was too featureless, so I broke out some more thin styrene and added some ribbing (no, don't make the joke, all you Slaaneshi admirals) to fill in the space a little between the bridge and the forward gunnery command center.

I also caved and cut up an old Reaper mini to get myself bat wings for the legion badge.  They're not perfectly symmetrical, but they're much better than anything I could manage, so I'll call it a win and move on.  You'll notice a little greenstuff at the back of the skull; I had to shave it down a bit to site it over the stubs of the wings, which worked fine because I was going to have to use some putty to cover the join anyway.

Here she is in all her glory, prior to painting.  With luck, I'll get that going this weekend!



You can sorta see the extra detail I added between the fire control center and the bridge; it'll be more obvious once I get paint on it.  And here's a frontal shot:

My modelling blog:  http://armiger84.blogspot.com

Offline Jimmy Zimms

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Re: [BFG] Armiger84's Drydock
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2013, 04:14:17 AM »
Wow  8) just great work!


err wait... no terrible terrible. Please send it to my place for proper disposal. ,;)
As we Imperials say, "The Emperor [class battleship] Protects..."

Offline Markconz

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Re: [BFG] Armiger84's Drydock
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2013, 05:56:10 AM »
Looks great, looking forward to seeing it painted.

Offline timdp

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Re: [BFG] Armiger84's Drydock
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2013, 07:16:32 PM »
Very inspiring!

I'll happily take that piece of scrap metal in the background off your hands... ;)


« Last Edit: May 18, 2013, 09:46:18 PM by timdp »

Offline Comrade-K-Rad

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Re: [BFG] Armiger84's Drydock
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2013, 02:06:25 AM »
This thing looks awesome, great conversion work!  Very nasty looking ship, firepower-wise. 
The Emperor may be master of the Galaxy, but a Captain is master of his ship!

Offline Armiger84

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Re: [BFG] Armiger84's Drydock
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2013, 02:37:03 AM »
Well, the Blasphemer's coming along.  I've made it to a semi-final paint touch-up phase, after which I'll probably be washing her again (what was a good blue base layer at night turned out to be a little too bright by day, and detailwork hasn't toned that down like I'd hoped it would), and I needed a change of pace.  So I decided to play with one of my Vengeance hulls, the one I'm turning into an Iron Warriors Retaliator.

What the heck went wrong with this model?  I must have missed the memo somewhere about this thing coming together absolutely horribly.  I swear I spent about an hour cleaning the flash off of the parts.  I probably had enough spare metal from that to cast an Iconoclast destroyer.  I've picked up three decent cuts from playing with the hobby knife on this one, and I already feel like I've given her more of my own blood than the model kit deserves.

So, I'd always planned on replacing the prows on my Vengeance hulls.  I just never liked the design, even from what I could see in the Armada book (which was only side-on profiles).  So, imagine how much more resolved I was after I opened up that kit and got a good look at it.

Here's where I was after half an hour of tinkering around with scratchbuilding an alternative prow.  I got my length about right (1.5 in.), but it's way too wide, something I figured out when I decided to test-fit it to the upper hull.  Oh well, back to the drawing board.  I'll get back to that tomorrow, or maybe later this weekend if I get back to painting.



(Also, I finally figured out how to resize images in Photobucket!  About time, Arm.  Anyhow, things will actually be reasonably sized for future posts!  Imagine that!)

My plan is to build a prow that's a proper mid-step between the chaos prows and imperial prows.  It's going to be relatively wide and relatively shallow, which as a bonus will give me plenty of room to put iconography on it, and leave me space for the BFG:R alternative prow systems (torpedoes; improved sensors).  My next attempt is going to be either narrower to match the width of the Repulsive's prow (and in that case I might just mount it flush with the gun decks behind it), or I'm going to have it curve forward to the arrowhead portion like the standard Chaos cruiser.  I might try to see about building a basic prow shape and then getting it duplicated so I can make a pair of torpedo tube versions, one with Imperial iconography and one with Chaos iconography, since it wouldn't be hard to putty over torpedo tubes for a standard prow, and then drill in holes for mounting antenna masts for a sensors version...  Just a thought.

Also, about that grand cruiser hull...



At the risk of ragging on the original designer too much, she's way too wasp-waisted, and the transition from the narrow neck to the bulbous prow is much too abrupt too.  Basically, all the problems I ran into on the Blasphemer build are present here.  I can understand why though.  If you're going to make these in metal, you have to keep the cost down somehow, and voids cost less than thick sections of solid metal.  I'm considering filling in that gap between the aft armor and the gun decks with something, even if it's just denser gribbly hull sections to make it feel chunkier, and yeah, prow's definitely changing.



Even if I wasn't planning on replacing the prow before, once I saw how this fit together, I probably would have found myself committed to making the change anyway.  I already have about 2 in. worth of paperclip reinforcing the joins between the gun decks and the aft/engineering compartments, and there's no way I'd be attaching this prow without at least 1-2 more pin lengths and a whole lot of putty.  I'm kinda bummed.  I really wanted this to be a better model than it turned out to be in person.
My modelling blog:  http://armiger84.blogspot.com

Offline Markconz

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Re: [BFG] Armiger84's Drydock
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2013, 11:42:57 AM »
Kind of get what you mean about it being ugly, but isn't that kind of the point of a Vengeance - that it is an old not quite obsolete type of cruiser? I ordered one (hopefully get it) for those fluff reasons. Nonetheless I look forward to seeing what you end up doing with this one!

On a separate note that clean up really doesn't sound fun!!

Offline timdp

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Re: [BFG] Armiger84's Drydock
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2013, 06:11:30 PM »
Am enjoying your build...

Thoughts on the "raggedness" of the transition from Blasphemer rear hull to gun decks.

For your next ship  ;) , if you swapped positions of the launch bay and the deck segment in front of it, things might blend better. It would put the LB next to the gun deck though. If you were to narrow the deck sections between the gun decks by half (to a single element) that would provide space to add a deck element between the LB and the rear gun deck.

If my plastic cruisers ever show up I will give it a try.

Tim