Warmaster Character Points calculator for Experimental/Fan Armies

[The Dog]

Warmaster Character Points calculator for Experimental/Fan Armies

Characters (pick one)   
General +2 Atk                           40
Hero +1 Atk, Command Range 60   25
Wizard, 0 Atk, Command Range 20 25
   
Command  (pick one)   
Command 6             5
Command 7            20
Command 8            55
Command 9            85
Command 10         115
   
Wizard options   
+1 Atk for 1 Atk like Liche Priest           +10
Bonus to cast like a High Elf                 +10

Hero options   
+1 Atk for 2 Atk like Saurus hero            +15
-1 Atk for 0 Atk like Skink hero                -10
Command range reduced like Skaven hero -10

General options   
Wizard like Vampire Lord                       +25
Tomb King bonus ability                        +5
Fly like Daemon Overlord                       +10
Command range reduced like Grey Seer    -10
-1 Atk for 1 Atk like Grey Seer                -10
High Elf                                              +25

Some worked examples
High Elf Wizards
Wizard(25), Command:8(55), +1 to casting dice like a High Elf(10)=90

Grey Seer
General(40), Command:9(85), Wizard(25), Only 1 Atk(-10), Command Range 20(-10)=130

Looks like High Elf General is over pointed by 25 points, probably to rebalance them.
General(40), Command:10(115), High Elf just because(25)=180


As I bothered to work this out, I thought I would share it with you, sorry if its been done before.  I have not tried this on the Experimental or Fan based armies just on the core Warmaster Armies, but it’s for you guys who like to tinker, that’s me included.

As Im working on a Sauron/Morder Selector for Lord of the Rings Third Age, I now have the points for a puny Orc Hero, for example.
Lord of the Rings Orc Hero 0 Atk, Command:7, with a Command range of 20cm
Hero(25), Command:7(20), -1 Atk(-10) Command Range reduced to 20(-10)=25
.

[Getlord]

Hi,

+25 for High Elf General in your words would be:

"+25 for Cmd 10 General with Cavalry options in the Army List"

not "just becasue" . Please see new Wodd Elf general in Compendium 2009, he is also 180 pts.

Dark Elf General for example has different drawbacks and that's why he is taken back to 155:
"-25 for blunder options" in your words.

Getlord

[The Dog]

Hi
The High Elf general although he has lots of mounts, I don’t think the extra 25 points is for that, I think its to balance the overall power of the army.

The Wood Elf General should cost 155 points, like the Dwarf armies general, but the 180 points probably includes the armies ability to have free woods.

I would prefer it if the Wood Elf general cost 155 and the ability to “summon” woods would cost say 25 points, letting the Wood Elf player “pay” for what he uses.

As to the Dark Elf general
General(40), Command:10(115)=155
So same as the army lists.  The Dark Elf generals ability are both good and bad so probably cancel each other out.

Just my point of view. 
.

[Stomm]

As Getlord said, its because there is cavalry, chariots and the like in the Wood Elf army that the general costs what he does. And in my view is still far too cheap, especially when combined with command 8 wizards as it allows a very points efficient and command effective character selection.

Take for example a 2000pt Empire army, or any of the human armies for that matter. As a bare minimum you will obviously take a general (125), you'd be mad not to take both spellcasters you're allowed (90), and you're going to need at least two heroes to move stuff around the table with (160). So without even considering monsterous mounts, magic items and the like a 2k human army needs to spend 375pts on characters just to function. You can easily add another 120pts to that for a griffon, displess scroll and other items, but then every army that has these sort of options would take them as well.

Compare that to High Elves...

General (180), two spellcasters (180), and that's it, they really don't need anything else as the mage's can move infantry around just as effectively as a hero can, and the general is even more effective at moving important (usually cavalry and/or chariots) brigades around, and indeed could possibly be able to order the entire army if it is kept compact at the same or indeed better effectiveness than any other army might do with a combination of heroes and their general. And all this for 360pts, really a hero for High Elves is pretty much an unecissary accessory, which I personally think is a bit daft. So really the cure to 'The High Elf Problem' is not to increase the general's points cost, but to reduce the command capacity of the mage's, and indeed this should be brought in across all armies, especially Chaos which likewise saves around 40pts per 1k of army size in not having to take a seperate hero to do the commanding...


Of course there is no problem with Dwarfs, as they don't have any spell casters as such, but more importantly they have no cavalry so the high command general merely serves to make the Dwarf infantry almost as manouverable as other army's cavalry, as opposed to the HE general which makes the HE cavalry super-manouverable...

[Haranin]

Changing the points cost of the general based on the options that the army has seems logical, but the result doesn't seem right.

Consider a few situations

HE player takes mostly infantry in a one thousand point army. The relative premium paid for the general is too high - You a paying a premium for something you aren't using.

HE Player maximizes the knights at every point value - 5 knights at 1 k; 10 at 1.5k. 25 points compensates for 10 knights at 1.5k [or 3 chariots and 2 reavers for five of the knights to cram in a mage]?

The problem is that the issue the points increase is attempting to address is the effectiveness of high elf knights among other mounted units... while the solution does nothing to actually change that dynamic.

The issue is the mounted units with leadership 10 are the problem, not the leadership 10.

Adding +10 to all HE cavalry makes more sense than a flat +25 (+5 feels to low; 10 might be to high but have to pick one).

[Stomm]

The counter-argument to increasing the unit PV's is that as game size increases, so the importance of the general decreases. However, this may very be the case with armies that have the standard command 9, but not only does the command 10 stay useful with higher point's value armies, but for really, really big battles on really, really big tables, the High Elf player also has the option of mounting their general on a bargain flying mount for IIRC only 20pts, thereby increasing the effective turn-to-turn range of their general by 40cm...

So, really a wholesale approach is needed to properly balance things, and to be honest you are never going to be able to achieve full balance throughout all the possible size of games that are played. The best that you can hope for is to choose a points range to balance, and work within that bracket. Probably between 1500pts and 4000pts should be what is aimed for, although if needs be you could up that to 2k-4 or 5k...