Am I unfair? I don't know. But there are a few things that irritate me about the now valid Skaven-list. To be exact three things. And I wanted to know if I am totally alone with that opinion...
Dang Gerald
you even won that game (oh yeah, but I still played by the old rule of No Advance after combat
)
... but I guess it was a scary experience seeing a capable general handling Skaven
1) Point cost
In the year 2004 (I think) there was a Skaven army list. In it quite a bunch of Skaven units cost about 5pts less than other similar units. That was balanced by the fact that Skaven were only allowed to make an advance move if they destroyed their enemies in the first combat round - sounded fair.
Strangely enough in the now valid army list this Advance restriction just disappeared - but the unit cost did not change!...
Hmmm after the first "experimental" Skaven rules Rick and Andy overhauled it ... IIRC there where actualy several changes.
- Stormvermin where introduced, and made more expensive then the average-mickey, and that at the cost of
- Jezail loosing stats, but NOT cost
and consider this Army does not have:
- flyers
- very effective artillery
2) Sreaming Bell
Yes, of course it is bulky, expensive and vulnerable (if their general is daring enough to not hide it behind three lines of Skaven). Still it gives all heroes within 30cm a +1 on command! Which effectively could mean up to 5 (!!) characters with command of 9 (!) at 2000 pts. As far as I remember the former Lizardmen "Divine Guidance" had a similar effect - and provoked lot of opposition within our playing community! And not enough with that the Screaming Bell offers some nice extra - it gives all enemy characters within 30cm a -1 on command. What else could a little rat ask for!
Well, you did have probably the most "handicaped" army to go up against the Ratties, but then again, even your Peasants where able to stem of the rats and called first blood, did they not ??
Seeing that I wont be playing Skaven against you for some time to come, I will let you in on a little secret. That Bell dont move all that well when there is no ratz to move it around, and I am sure if you re-read the rules about positioning you will see some options to make it less effective there as well. And, from mouse to man, lets be honnest, I dont even NEED 4 more characters at Ld 9 to move my Ratz.
Oh yeah, and just make sure your opponent dont sneak a Ld 10 general under the Bell influence on you, the bonus is only for heros and warlocks.
That said, I would not be adverse to a discussion to limiting the bonus to just the FIRST order in a turn for characters (excepting the general) in each turn.
3) Gutter Runners
Infiltrators are quite a delicate topic. On the one side they could add some spice to the game - on the other hand in times some WM-circles heavily discuss restriction of the other unit type that can suddenly appear in the back of troops - flyers - it is not easy to draw in another of those unit types.
I am for introducing infiltrators. But I would prefer to make them an expensive and hard to use unit than to unbalance the whole game. So I would advice to introduce them very, very carefully!
And that's not what I meet when I look at Gutter Runners. First of all a Skaven player could place 8 (!!) units of infiltrating Gutter Runners at 2000 pts. Then he could place them within spitting distance of the enemy - they just watch - they don't touch. But only when they are placed! Because the Skaven player could go on commanding them in the very round he placed them (if a Skaven character is within 20cm). So with some luck (and a bit of risk) a brigade of gutter runners (or even more) could appear and charge a brigade of let's say enemy warmachines in the second round of game. Or even better - just shoot it! 15 cm is enough for that.
That's not what I would call "careful" introduction.
So, what do you all think about it?
Am I just a little too negative?
Uhhh... I beg to consider the following:
1) you need terrain (or a table edge) to deploy Gutter Runners in, they cant plonk on a bare table
2) the -1 for distance to enemy counts as normal for the command role to have them infiltrate
3) I can only summon them a UNIT at the time which means
--a) after I summoned them, IF I want to attack with them, I need to attack with THAT unit BEFORE I give any other orders (iow before I can summon other Gutter Runners
--b) I would need to have a character within 20 cm to be able to give that order (which early in the game would be a dead give-away what I am up to, and probably means easy points for you to kill the character
--c) to have the Gutter Runners charge, I am -1 for 2d order, -1 for proximity of enemy
4) Flyers in your backfield provide the same kind of threat on an artillery base, and can be in place too, and attack on initiative on a second turn.
There was considerable discusion on the subject before the V2.2 lists made the current Skaven list "official", and most of that discussion was on creating the current Gutter Runners rules which where accepted as is by the PTB (or to be more accurate, changed by them)
I would consider one possible "softning up" that might help to alliviate part of the issue. Establish the Army BP discounting the Gutter Runners that are NOT yet deployed. As you should remember from our game at the EuroGT, having 8 units non-deployed actualy would make a Skaven general a bit more aprehenisve to take cassulties.
